Disappointing interaction with GedLee

[cwujek]

I have been building speakers and amplifiers for the past few years, and have been through my fair share of transactions with various loudspeaker and amplifier manufacturers, mainly buying kits and components. Most if not all of these have been straightforward and mutually beneficial. My recent interactions with Dr. Geddes have been unpleasant at best, insulting at worst. I know others have obviously had successful transactions, I'm only here to explain my side of an ongoing battle with Dr. Geddes, and to hear other peoples feedback on what they would do. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I feel unsatisfied walking away from this transaction.

I originally bought a set of GedLee waveguides from another forum member here in the swap meet. This was a product made by Earl, and after emailing him he confirmed that he could get me the remaining parts to build a set of Nathans. He promptly responded to my emails, and was helpful with getting me plans so that I could start the build process. I paid at the beginning of July, and received the drivers a week and a half later. The crossovers did not arrive, and after a few emails to Earl I received them half way through October, three months later. This was not a problem, as the cabinets were still under construction, and I am someone who understands how busy things can get.

Earl had previously sent me a schematic of the crossover, and upon inspection of the parts I had received, many of them were incorrect with the updated schematic that had been included. The parts for the old schematic were sent, so I emailed Earl and asked him what to do. Because he was in China at the time, he told me he would get back to me in a month and get things back on track. I never got a response, but I understood how things get busy and buried under more important matters. After another couple emails, I got in touch with Early and asked about the crossover status. This is where things began to get ugly, as I assumed I would be getting the updated crossover parts as that was the schematic I was originally sent months earlier. Earl stated that I had parts to make a crossover that would work just fine, and that I also bought the parts second hand, so I should accept that and move on. This was naturally difficult for me, as I had sunk a good $1200+ into this project, and I was a bit disappointed that I was brushed off so easily. I was told the updated schematic made a noticeable improvement in audio quality, so it didn't make any sense to stick with the old one with so much money invested. Not to mention that the ONLY parts bought second hand were the baffles, which were still his product that he had been paid for. Upon questioning this and asking to get a phone call to discuss things, I received a response a week later, stating that I would not get a call as I was being "wholly unreasonable", and that I was not worth his time. This came as an especially shocking slap to the face, and it is when I decided that I would not be perusing any further interaction with Dr. Geddes. I am not saying this is how all interactions will be, just a word of warning based on my experience. If it seems like I am overreacting, I would appreciate some feedback.

[Adam Bernau]

I was thinking about buying some of the Gedlee kits, but after that i did some research, i decided not to.
I was asking if i can buy the Nathan kits without speakers, because the shipping to my country will be very expensive given the heavyweight of BC drivers.
He agreed and offered me those for a half price of complete kit (which IS including all the speakers and finished crossovers) so i was close to ordering two empty baffles with waveguides for 1200 USD (not cheap, is it). Just to be sure i asked if both crossovers are part of the price
and Dr. Geddes has responded that they are NOT and he can send me the PARTS ONLY for both crossovers and asked 300 USD for them. And that was it for me. I can only say that from my short corespondece with Dr. Geddes i started to think that he is focused on making as much money as possible and his way of doing it is very far from the spirit of this forum,where people are trying to help each other to great sound.Lot of people here helped me with my questions and asked nothing in advance.
My opinion also is that his products are totally and crazy overpriced, with very low finishing quality, i have seen many pictures of very disapointed customers who have paid premium price and received malfunctional product looking like cheap garage work.

[kevinh]

Well Earl is a manufacturer, and a vendor. IMO you expectations of what he should do in these transactions is unrealistic. If you had bought completed products or complete kits you expect a certain level of service, if on the other hand you get bits and pieces and want Earl to fill in the blanks and not make as much (if any) money I wouldn't expect the same level of service at all.


Earl has published his equations in his book IIRC and has revealed what drivers he uses and important information like radius's required to minimize diffraction (according to Earl an important audible distortion as opposed to 2nd harmonic distortion which isn't troublesome). He has also been very forthcoming with the DIY community about criteria in amplification and how to get the best bass response in real listening spaces.

His products represent great value IMO.

Not affiliated with GedLee in any capacity.

[abraxalito]

Originally Posted by kevinh

Well Earl is a manufacturer, and a vendor. IMO you expectations of what he should do in these transactions is unrealistic. If you had bought completed products or complete kits you expect a certain level of service, if on the other hand you get bits and pieces and want Earl to fill in the blanks and not make as much (if any) money I wouldn't expect the same level of service at all.

One of the hallmarks of a successful business is managing customers' expectations. Here, the OP received an email indicating that Dr. Geddes was willing to help. Yet it appears either that initial email was misleading or that Dr. Geddes changed his mind during the process. Thus the OP isn't being unreasonable in his expectations here.

[WithTarragon]

It is hard to follow the original post. Is this guy worried about $15 worth of capacitors?

BTW, do you really think these speakers are over-priced? Giiven the time spent, I doubt that Dr Geddes makes much money from this endeavor. I think a dose of realism is needed.

[abraxalito]

Originally Posted by WithTarragon

It is hard to follow the original post. Is this guy worried about $15 worth of capacitors?

I followed it without any difficulties. Where do you get that notion from?

BTW, do you really think these speakers are over-priced?

I have no idea as I haven't been a customer. I do have some experience though of interaction with Dr. Geddes, and I don't find the OP's story out of character.

Giiven the time spent, I doubt that Dr Geddes makes much money from this endeavor.

Which endeavour? His whole business or his interaction with the OP?

[Pano]

Let's stick to the facts, and not speculation.

[Adam Bernau]

Ok,to support my opinion let's have look on some info openly available on the web. Some of it even on this forum. You can judge the interaction with Dr.Geddes yourself. I am adding some pics of his high quality products as well.

Building the Nathan 10

HTGuide Forum - View Single Post - Has anyone looked at Earl Geddes Nathan10?

DIY Waveguide loudspeaker kit

DIY Waveguide loudspeaker kit

High Efficiency Speaker Asylum - It happened more than once - WithTarragon - August 17, 2008 at 08:24:51

high efficiency speaker with a budget of us$1000,00

And here some sumarized observations

SOCIAL AUDIO DISTORTION FORUM :: View topic - Geddes Summa Loudspeaker Kit

[cwujek]

Originally Posted by kevinh

Well Earl is a manufacturer, and a vendor. IMO you expectations of what he should do in these transactions is unrealistic. If you had bought completed products or complete kits you expect a certain level of service, if on the other hand you get bits and pieces and want Earl to fill in the blanks and not make as much (if any) money I wouldn't expect the same level of service at all.


Earl has published his equations in his book IIRC and has revealed what drivers he uses and important information like radius's required to minimize diffraction (according to Earl an important audible distortion as opposed to 2nd harmonic distortion which isn't troublesome). He has also been very forthcoming with the DIY community about criteria in amplification and how to get the best bass response in real listening spaces.

His products represent great value IMO.

Not affiliated with GedLee in any capacity.

The only thing I didn't purchase from Earl was the baffle, which was still his product. All the other "bits and pieces" were bought directly from Earl, so I don't feel like I was being too unreasonable in my expectations. As for Earls contributions to the community, I never questioned this, nor did I question the value. I for one feel like I paid a fair price, and the service I received was reasonable UNTIL the issue with the crossovers.

Originally Posted by WithTarragon

It is hard to follow the original post. Is this guy worried about $15 worth of capacitors?

BTW, do you really think these speakers are over-priced? Giiven the time spent, I doubt that Dr Geddes makes much money from this endeavor. I think a dose of realism is needed.

For the money I paid on this project overall (over $1200 at this point), the crossovers are a minimal investment to correct on my own. Being treated rudely and being blown off for a mistake that was deemed unworthy of a vendors time is what got to me, which is what I tried to illustrate in my original post. And as I state earlier, I felt like the price I paid was fair, although I know others will disagree.

[Ed LaFontaine]

If I understand correctly, your receipt of the crossover schematic preceded arrival of the crossover parts. The parts don't fit the schematic provided.

Do I understand correctly?

It is reasonable to expect the parts to fit the schematic. If they do not an exchange would be in order.