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Old 25th January 2010, 12:45 AM   #111
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Just in case my previous post was not clear, each line will be a different frequency, Exel sees the ENTER at row end as a new row on import:

Frequency,Angle1,Angle2,Angle3, etc. etc.
1000,91,95,94, etc.etc.
2000,90,93,92 etc., etc.
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Old 25th January 2010, 12:47 AM   #112
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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So prove it guys!! Show us! Talk is cheap!
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Old 25th January 2010, 12:51 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
So prove it guys!! Show us! Talk is cheap!
Earl, email me a dataset and I'll play with it in Exel,

Lukas
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Old 25th January 2010, 04:24 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
There are VB addins to Excel to make contour plots too. See Contour Plotting in Excel for example. It took me about 10 minutes to figure out how to use this.
Click the image to open in full size.
A few months ago I saw "The Watchmen", and Ozymandias TOTALLY reminded me of John K
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Old 25th January 2010, 05:11 AM   #115
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Not to stray away from topic, but I've been wondering........ Dr Geddes, Toole's book seems to suggest the wide dispersion speakers sound better to the end user, why do you design narrow(er) directivity speakers? Can you sum it up for me in a few sentences, I know there are good reasons I don't like Bose or that line of thinking etc... Hopefully it's not just my pride disgusted with mainstream whatever. I know you said 10msec is a good idea prior to first reflection, can you explain the "why" of this idea for me and the rest of who's thinking?
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Old 25th January 2010, 06:46 AM   #116
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What, no Summa vertical polar map, Earl?

Scroll to bottom here:

http://www.eighteensound.com/staticC...Sound_kit8.pdf

[Yah, CLIO's been generating them for years, now, in any desired resolution.... ]
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Old 25th January 2010, 01:08 PM   #117
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by dantheman View Post
Not to stray away from topic, but I've been wondering........ Dr Geddes, Toole's book seems to suggest the wide dispersion speakers sound better to the end user, why do you design narrow(er) directivity speakers? Can you sum it up for me in a few sentences, I know there are good reasons I don't like Bose or that line of thinking etc... Hopefully it's not just my pride disgusted with mainstream whatever. I know you said 10msec is a good idea prior to first reflection, can you explain the "why" of this idea for me and the rest of who's thinking?
Thanks,

Dan
Floyd and I argue this often. Its the one thing that we disgaree on. His research is based on "preference" with piston loudspeakers and a CD loudspeaker of the type that I propose was never tried. What one must always keep in mind, and Floyd would admit this, is that his data is based on "what we know today". If someone comes along with new data then the current beliefes have to take this into consideration. I believe that my approach is "new data". I have not reduced it to the quantified status that Floyds data is in, because I don't have Floyds resources. But I firmly believe that if my speakers were put into a reverberant room along with his wide directivity speakers, that mine would be prefered. They may even be prefered in the less reverberant room as well.

Floyd and crew do not even consider image in their criteria for a loudspeaker. It is heavily weighted on spaciaousness. They don't even consider any dynamics, nothing in the amplitude aspects. There are a lot of holes in Floyds work, but its still the best there is on the subject if you can recognize where these holes are at.
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Old 25th January 2010, 01:55 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Floyd and crew do not even consider image in their criteria for a loudspeaker. It is heavily weighted on spaciaousness. They don't even consider any dynamics, nothing in the amplitude aspects.
To my knowledge they do (a "spatial quality questionnaire" can be found in Toole "Sound Reproduction" p. 132).
Dan, if you want to know more you can find Sean Olive as Tonmeister2008 at avsforum.com

Best, Markus
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Old 25th January 2010, 05:31 PM   #119
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What, no Summa vertical polar map, Earl?

Scroll to bottom here:

http://www.eighteensound.com/staticC...Sound_kit8.pdf

[Yah, CLIO's been generating them for years, now, in any desired resolution.... ]
I'd like to see that too. We can't talk about power response without knowing horizontal and vertical directivity.

By the way Zilch, could you post polar maps for the EconoWave (horizontal and vertical, 90, 7,5 increments)?

Best, Markus

Last edited by markus76; 25th January 2010 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 25th January 2010, 08:51 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
I believe that my approach is "new data".
It's not new data, and you know it, that having appeared in the JBL 4430 brochure, for example, 30 years ago.

And we (you and I, specifically) have previously discussed the origins of defined directivity and an enhanced image rendition zone (IRZ) here, based upon the work of Keele in other JBL products, also decades ago:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=5671

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ead.php?t=8373

As Durwood suggested above, it'd sure be good if you provided references in your marketing "White Papers" as opposed to misleading readers into supposing the work is original.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
By the way Zilch, could you post polar maps for the EconoWave (horizontal and vertical, 90, 7,5 increments)?
System polars?

Nope. I've only just begun studying the verticals using the "move the mic" technique you and I developed in these pages over a year ago, which is limited to +/- 20 vertical as I implement it here. I'm doing 5 increments with that to find the influence of the vertical nulls and with inverse polarity, aiming the forward axis. I have not yet exercised CLIO's directivity sonogram capabilities with this.

Earl did the polars on the waveguide itself,* but there is no EconoWave system, per se, rather, hundreds of them, as it's an open source design. For my own part, I'm presently working with the QSC waveguide and 12" woofers with a minimum 10.5" C/C distance. Augerpro measured that waveguide's polars, and they are similar to our standard JBL/Pyle(clone) PT waveguide with respect to pattern control, basically, in a larger form factor, with integral mouth roundovers. Both of us have been able to demonstrate a +/- 10 vertical "window" (-6 dB) at 1.3 - 1.5 kHz crossover with that combination, posted on other sites.

*Since, deleted from the GedLee website....

Last edited by ZilchLab; 25th January 2010 at 09:21 PM.
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