P-Audio neo drivers and ship the lot out of Thailand with reduced weight
Just skimming through this thread and thought.... to make the project really bang4buck why not redesign the waveguide and crossover to suit the P-Audio neo drivers and then you could ship the entire kit out of Thailand for half the weight and at a much lower cost.
col.
Just skimming through this thread and thought.... to make the project really bang4buck why not redesign the waveguide and crossover to suit the P-Audio neo drivers and then you could ship the entire kit out of Thailand for half the weight and at a much lower cost.
col.
Re: P-Audio neo drivers and ship the lot out of Thailand with reduced weight
This was tried actually, but the Paudio stuff was not nearly as good as the B&C. In fact the data sheets for Paudio were pure fiction - an "artists conception". That said, I could make them work and this idea is currently being discussed if AI can ever open its doors again. What people are not realizing is that the "Asian advantage" is disappearing. With the low dollar, very high shipping costs and an ever escalating local labor costs, its no less expensive to have the kits made in Thailand than it is here. Fully assembled and painted system yes, but not kits. I can do them just as cheap here. In fact my new process is even cheaper than what AI is using.
But what I sell here will probably always have B&C because of the deal that I get. B&C also sells neo drivers and if I get enough overseas orders I might consider that option to reduce weight, but recognize that most of the weight is in the wood.
col said:
This was tried actually, but the Paudio stuff was not nearly as good as the B&C. In fact the data sheets for Paudio were pure fiction - an "artists conception". That said, I could make them work and this idea is currently being discussed if AI can ever open its doors again. What people are not realizing is that the "Asian advantage" is disappearing. With the low dollar, very high shipping costs and an ever escalating local labor costs, its no less expensive to have the kits made in Thailand than it is here. Fully assembled and painted system yes, but not kits. I can do them just as cheap here. In fact my new process is even cheaper than what AI is using.
But what I sell here will probably always have B&C because of the deal that I get. B&C also sells neo drivers and if I get enough overseas orders I might consider that option to reduce weight, but recognize that most of the weight is in the wood.
Yes, and I just discovered a crossover change that improves it even more. The new crossover is nearly as good as the Summa. I was quite pleased. I am anxious to get the new parts and build a set to test. Unfortunately my measurement setup is torn down right now and it will be several weeks before I can do this.
Ignore the bass response since below 200Hz its meaningless due to windowing. Sometimes it rises, sometimes it falls, but its virtually never correct. The real system is about a Q of .7 with resonance at about 90 Hz. To get below 200 Hz I have to blend in a nearfield measurement and I haven't done that here.
Note the polar map below: This is just about as good as I have ever gotten. I wish that I had discovered this before.
There is a good chance that it could improve the Abbey's, but I need to build some first. Still waiting on a mold modification that was required.
Note the polar map below: This is just about as good as I have ever gotten. I wish that I had discovered this before.
There is a good chance that it could improve the Abbey's, but I need to build some first. Still waiting on a mold modification that was required.
I thought you mentioned that you were already getting part of the manufacturing process done in Thailand. So using good quality Thai drivers seemed to make more sense. Were the tests you did on P-Audio drivers their new range? They look very impressive from here, I hope the spec sheets are more than just an artist concept as they are a very cost effective solution here in Australia. B&C are MUCH more expensive (apart from the cheap ones that have been appearing in online auction over the last few months, which I missed out on).
If you can't get AI to "open their doors" why don't you go direct to P-Audio. Looks like they have more than enough resource to provide what you would need for R&D, they would probably fall over themselves to get you on board.
col.
col said:
I know everyone at Paudio. I know the owner personally. Sure I could get anything that I want from them. There is no shortage of low cost driver manufacturers for that matter. Paudio basically has no R&D staff. They are a rock bottom priced manufacturer with no internal expertise at all. They basically make up their data shetts, so I wouldn't trust them at all.
But I'm missing your point. The Thialand operation ran out of money and I'm not there anymore. The reasons that they didn't use Paudio are academic now. They should have - too late now.
What I pay for B&C drivers and what you pay in Australia are completly different. From here, for me, the Paudio are only a little cheaper. If I went to Asia for drivers I'd go to Boke in Guangdong. But dealing in China is not something that I am up to and, as I said before, the Asian advantage is disappearing fast.
Thats very interesting. I think you just changed my mind on my next speaker project. Wish I had bought those B&C drivers that were on ebay now, damn! My favorite Neo compression drivers are the BMS4540ND but importing them costs a song now. There really isn't much choice here. Oh well at least we still have Lorantz
col.
"its called "highly directional", but still constant with frequency."
Understood, what caught my attention was the apparently higher directivity vs. nominal, i.e. 35 deg/-6 dB instead of 45.
To me that's a good thing as it will reduce reflections from my right speaker which is only a couple of feet from the side wall, which is all glass.
Understood, what caught my attention was the apparently higher directivity vs. nominal, i.e. 35 deg/-6 dB instead of 45.
To me that's a good thing as it will reduce reflections from my right speaker which is only a couple of feet from the side wall, which is all glass.
gedlee said:
I for one am perfectly happy to pay the extra $20. It's a very small portion of the price and the goal (at least for me) is to get the best performance possible. Lots of folks don't blink at spending $20 on a boutique capacitor that might offer an improvement so I think $20 for a significant measured improvement is a flat out bargain.
I'm early awaiting my Abbey kits so this couldn't have come at a better time.
mike
Thanks for that input. A lot of people think that $600 (ah $620) for a kit is a lot of money, but they are comparing it something that is not comparable. The polars that I am getting for the Nathan10 are absolutely outstanding, far better than the ESP10. But the ESP10 was not fully developed. I was in the process of refining it when AI ran out of money, so it is what it was when I left. I saw the same problems in the new design that I saw in that one, but I did not see the solution until a few days ago. It was very clever, but pretty expensive - thats a 50% increase in the crossover cost.
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