Update plans
I may be able to offer the kits with two different sets of drivers, B&C and Eminence. The B&C are clearly the better, but the Eminence would allow me to drop the price by maybe $100. Any point in doing this? $600 vs. $500 - I'd pay the differential, what about others?
The kit thing is going well and I'll have pictures by next week.
People who only buy the baffle - will you want the edges routed? There is a potential problem with that and that is that the baffle is 3/4" thick but the corner round is 1" so there is 1/4" left on the cabinet sides.
I may be able to offer the kits with two different sets of drivers, B&C and Eminence. The B&C are clearly the better, but the Eminence would allow me to drop the price by maybe $100. Any point in doing this? $600 vs. $500 - I'd pay the differential, what about others?
The kit thing is going well and I'll have pictures by next week.
People who only buy the baffle - will you want the edges routed? There is a potential problem with that and that is that the baffle is 3/4" thick but the corner round is 1" so there is 1/4" left on the cabinet sides.
Patrick Bateman said:
The computer time isn't a big problem, its the setup time to do the polars thats a pain. I'm already setup for that and Eminence gave me the drivers to try so its only about 1/2 day to swap drivers, and measure. I will probably do the design anyways, but I wouldn't "tweak" it in to the last 1/2 dB if there is no interest. Who knows, the Eminence could work better I guess. The B&C woofer is not ideal - but what is?
I've got some down time right now waiting for the gloss coat to dry on the molds (this has to be very hard in order to polish it). Then polish and pull some parts. If that goes well then I am ready to ship. First parts run is basically sold - unless I do a lot.
peufeu said:
Ah, you got one right out of two
If changing the drivers halved the price, well, it would be worth it, but going from 600 to 500 and get worse sound ? No, thanks, I'd rather pay $600 and get the "director's cut" instead of the PG-13 version lol. Now, if the Eminence woofer is better...
Problem is that I can't mix the driver suppliers. The business model doesn't work like that.
pooge said:
Thanks for the link Pooge.
Interesting read gedlee.
I'm in the market for something like your kit and haven't found much other than the 4Pi. I was even considering something like the JBL PRX pro-series, but I'd prefer more bass extension (something like down to 35-40 hz, where I can cross to a high-mass, high-power subwoofer).
I was thinking about a DIY system with Beyma 15LX60 and CP380M (with either the TD250 horn or, more likely, the DDS ENG 1-90), but then I'd have to go active because I don't have passive crossover design skills. A kit would make life easier.
I look forward to learning more about it.
If I may, one problem that I see is that the high end will need to compensate for when the speakers are run without the foam. Over time, the foam may go bad or may be lost, and the buyer will be left with a speaker that is too bright. Will the crossover have a way to adjust for running without the foam?
publius said:
You can learn all you'll likely to ever be able to learn by going to www.ai-audio.com - the ESP10 is virtually identical to the kit, except the cabinet is wood not fiberglass and waveguide is a different material. More info than is this not likely to happen.
No, the speaker cannot be run without foam. But modern foam is not an issue anymore. I have not seen any change in more than five years and I expect 20 years without a problem.
gedlee said:
So people who get this kit will also need to get two subs, something like the ESP BB Sub 15 in order to fill-in the bass (not the sub-bass <40hz, just the regular bass 40-100hz)? Are those going to be offered as part of the kit, or another kit?
Have you considered that most people don't have subs that can keep up with the high SPL of the ESP10?
Re: the missing pieces....
I have sub designs, but there isn't any way to make any money on these as the value added is so small. I have to get $400 each for the sub kits and this is just not in line with the mains kits cost wise. I can't see how anyone would pay $400 for a sub when the mains are only $600. Maybe I'm wrong and I'll rethink this. Maybe I'll just sell the plans (like that has any potential!).
chrismercurio said:
I have sub designs, but there isn't any way to make any money on these as the value added is so small. I have to get $400 each for the sub kits and this is just not in line with the mains kits cost wise. I can't see how anyone would pay $400 for a sub when the mains are only $600. Maybe I'm wrong and I'll rethink this. Maybe I'll just sell the plans (like that has any potential!).
augerpro said:
E-mail me at egeddes@gedlee.com. I will be building waveguides with foam and mounting plates next week. But you have to get on the waiting list by making a downpayment. I can't promise a time on delivery until I know better the time it takes to make the baffle and I just don't have that data right now.
publius said:
If you do the system design correctly this is not a problem. By this I mean use several subs and the efficiency will be there. No a single sub won't work very well, but then they never do.
And because a speaker is efficient does not mean that you HAVE TO play it loud.
As I have said before, subs are cheap. Just go to Costco and buy three of them at $100 each - powered! I can't compete with that.
gedlee said:
What calculations are you using that allow three Costco $100 subs to produce bass from 40-100hz that can keep up with this kit? Your proposal seems like a total mismatch to me. I would think that you would need two of these: http://jblpro.com/products/portablesound/prx/prx518s.html
or something similar.
I suppose that high efficiency has benefits other than being able to play loud, but you were poo-pooing Linkwitz and his Orion for its marginal SPL capabilities. Oh well, I suppose this isn't what I was hoping for.
Will you be offering your horns/foam inserts as a separate product?
publius said:
Having a lot of experince here, ONE 18" sub (the ULF18) is definately enough SPL for the large ESP15. For these much smaller 10's in a HT or living room three Costco subs would definatly be enough for 110 dB SPL - maybe not 120, but then these smaller systems won't do that either. These ARE NOT the large 15's, they are almost 3 dB less efficient and at least 10 dB less MaxSPL.
I think that your suggestion might be overkill.
I will sell the waveguides and foam plugs separately with one contingency - the full kits will take precidence. Hence, if I can sell all the waveguides that I can make as kits then there won't be any available as separates. At the moment I will guarantee waveguides if a deposit is paid. I may not do that in the future, we'll see.
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