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Old 3rd August 2008, 01:31 PM   #621
col is offline col  Australia
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Default P-Audio neo drivers and ship the lot out of Thailand with reduced weight

Just skimming through this thread and thought.... to make the project really bang4buck why not redesign the waveguide and crossover to suit the P-Audio neo drivers and then you could ship the entire kit out of Thailand for half the weight and at a much lower cost.

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Old 3rd August 2008, 01:33 PM   #622
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The idea of using different drivers and using drivers with neo magnets was covered much earlier in the thread. The kits are what they are. Earl is offering a great turnkey kit...just slap the box together and you are done.

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Old 3rd August 2008, 03:09 PM   #623
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Default Re: P-Audio neo drivers and ship the lot out of Thailand with reduced weight

Quote:
Originally posted by col
Just skimming through this thread and thought.... to make the project really bang4buck why not redesign the waveguide and crossover to suit the P-Audio neo drivers and then you could ship the entire kit out of Thailand for half the weight and at a much lower cost.

col.
This was tried actually, but the Paudio stuff was not nearly as good as the B&C. In fact the data sheets for Paudio were pure fiction - an "artists conception". That said, I could make them work and this idea is currently being discussed if AI can ever open its doors again. What people are not realizing is that the "Asian advantage" is disappearing. With the low dollar, very high shipping costs and an ever escalating local labor costs, its no less expensive to have the kits made in Thailand than it is here. Fully assembled and painted system yes, but not kits. I can do them just as cheap here. In fact my new process is even cheaper than what AI is using.

But what I sell here will probably always have B&C because of the deal that I get. B&C also sells neo drivers and if I get enough overseas orders I might consider that option to reduce weight, but recognize that most of the weight is in the wood.
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Old 3rd August 2008, 05:25 PM   #624
MEH is offline MEH  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee
Below is a pdf of the measured response of the Nathans as currently sold.
Looks like an improvement over the measured response of the ESP10. Did you learn something new?
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Old 3rd August 2008, 06:03 PM   #625
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Yes, and I just discovered a crossover change that improves it even more. The new crossover is nearly as good as the Summa. I was quite pleased. I am anxious to get the new parts and build a set to test. Unfortunately my measurement setup is torn down right now and it will be several weeks before I can do this.
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Old 3rd August 2008, 06:14 PM   #626
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Here check this out for the response of a simple low cost two way.
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File Type: pdf nathan_08_01_08.pdf (40.7 KB, 270 views)
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Old 3rd August 2008, 07:12 PM   #627
MEH is offline MEH  United States
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Impressive. You really flattened out the 1kHz bump, and it looks like you've got a good bit deeper bass response as well -- except you cut off the chart at 100Hz.

Will these new discoveries carry over to Abbey and Abbey+? If so, you might just beat the old Summa's performance.
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Old 3rd August 2008, 07:20 PM   #628
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Ignore the bass response since below 200Hz its meaningless due to windowing. Sometimes it rises, sometimes it falls, but its virtually never correct. The real system is about a Q of .7 with resonance at about 90 Hz. To get below 200 Hz I have to blend in a nearfield measurement and I haven't done that here.

Note the polar map below: This is just about as good as I have ever gotten. I wish that I had discovered this before.

There is a good chance that it could improve the Abbey's, but I need to build some first. Still waiting on a mold modification that was required.
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File Type: pdf nathan_08_08_map.pdf (30.4 KB, 153 views)
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Old 3rd August 2008, 07:30 PM   #629
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Am I reading the plot correctly - - 6 dB is at about 35 deg off axis from about 3 kHz up?
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Old 3rd August 2008, 09:55 PM   #630
col is offline col  Australia
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Quote:
This was tried actually, but the Paudio stuff was not nearly as good as the B&C. In fact the data sheets for Paudio were pure fiction - an "artists conception". That said, I could make them work and this idea is currently being discussed if AI can ever open its doors again. What people are not realizing is that the "Asian advantage" is disappearing. With the low dollar, very high shipping costs and an ever escalating local labor costs, its no less expensive to have the kits made in Thailand than it is here. Fully assembled and painted system yes, but not kits. I can do them just as cheap here. In fact my new process is even cheaper than what AI is using.

But what I sell here will probably always have B&C because of the deal that I get. B&C also sells neo drivers and if I get enough overseas orders I might consider that option to reduce weight, but recognize that most of the weight is in the wood.
I thought you mentioned that you were already getting part of the manufacturing process done in Thailand. So using good quality Thai drivers seemed to make more sense. Were the tests you did on P-Audio drivers their new range? They look very impressive from here, I hope the spec sheets are more than just an artist concept as they are a very cost effective solution here in Australia. B&C are MUCH more expensive (apart from the cheap ones that have been appearing in online auction over the last few months, which I missed out on).

If you can't get AI to "open their doors" why don't you go direct to P-Audio. Looks like they have more than enough resource to provide what you would need for R&D, they would probably fall over themselves to get you on board.

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