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Old 11th July 2008, 01:41 AM   #561
jdubs is offline jdubs  United States
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Earl

I have someone that will be (hopefully) making cabinets for me. If I buy the "Baffle/waveguide, drivers, crossover", that would get me everything BUT the cabinet, right?

Do you have any specifics on the cabinet (dimensions, etc.) that you can share so I can have him take a look ahead of receiving the front baffle?

Thanks!
Jim
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Old 11th July 2008, 02:02 AM   #562
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Send me a seperate E-mail on this and I'll see what I can do.
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Old 11th July 2008, 04:10 AM   #563
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Count me in as another who has heard Dr. Geddes system.

I was away from home for the July 4 weekend and Detroit was only a little bit out of the way on the trip home, so, wanting to take a trip to hear the system anyway, I had to jump at the chance for a listen. Earl was gracious enough to let me stop by for a quick listen even though it was quite late on a Monday evening- thanks.

When I arrived we chatted for a minute and then went down to the theater for a listen. We first listened to one or two stereo tracks, then several tracks+video from a Cream concert, and finally several tracks+video from an Eagles concert.

What can I sayÖ the system doesnít do anything wrong.

Letís pick the low lying fruit first: dynamics. Bottom line: the system played without any noticeable change in sound quality up to the levels we wanted it to. That is more than can be said for almost every stereo out there, and certainly every dome system Iíve ever heard. Iíve heard a few horn/waveguide systems that sound ďdome-likeĒ up to levels where a dome runs out of steam, and they can certainly get louder, but they have always tended to get ďspittyĒ or have the ďhorn soundĒ when pushed past that pointÖ not here- the system sounded the same at all the levels we played it at. If I had to guess, Iíd say our listening got up to around 105 dB A-weighted or 110 dB unweighted, both of those being RMS over a 1s time interval. I canít say what the peaks hit, but I wouldnít be surprised at 120+ dB. I would be interested to see how much more the system had in it, but it wasnít really necessary for what we did. I will say that at times I like to listen to it a little louder, maybe another 5 dB or so, but thatís not very often.

Tonally, the system was neutral- no problems in any frequency ranges and the overall spectral tilt was flat to slightly downward-tilted. The bass and midbass, IMO one of the major challenges of a small room, was right on- articulate, smooth, and balancedÖ a lot like a good pair of headphones or a good system outside. Iíve only heard a few small room systems that get the bass this close to right, and Iíve never heard a system do this well through the bass and midbass. As a side note, Iím guessing this has to with having the subs and midbasses overlap, as Iíve always had a problem getting the midbass right when crossing it over to the subs around 70-80 Hz, even if having the bass good up to that point. The other tough area, the high end, was as clean as can be. The OS waveguide and foam do as advertisedÖ at no point did I hear anything resembling the ďhorn sound.Ē As noted above, Iíve heard horn systems sound this good at low volume, but not when cranked up. The foam seems to take away that last little bit of harshness that Iíve never been able to do away with otherwise. I wonít say that it was an earth-shattering difference as some people (Geddes on WG thread) have claimed, but it certainly WAS a difference, and itís certainly WORTH doing it, considering thereís no better (other?) way to get the job done.

I was most curious to hear the spatial characteristics of a system setup with the philosophy explained in the Summa paper, as the rest of the performance is fairly easy to quantify (does it screw stuff up?). Iím a bit hesitant to start describing this because itís very subjective and difficult to reliably compare with other systems heard on other days, but Iíll give it a whirl; just be sure to take the description with a grain of salt. One of the first things I noticed was that the room seemed quite live at high frequencies. Usually that means listening fatigue, but over the 45 minutes or so of constant listening at high volumes I experienced none. A highly damped room can make a crappy speaker sound better, but with a good speaker this just seemed right. The sound stage and imaging was as good as Iíve heardÖ the stage was appropriately wide, high, and deep, and the images sounded real- not pinpoints and not vague, confused locations, but rather images of a definite direction that were appropriately sized and fuzzy, like a live performance. Thatís about all I want to say on thatÖ give it a shot and youíll be a believer.

Overall, itís about what I expected: a well-designed and executed system, certainly the best one Iíve ever experienced. All (or very close) aspects of system performance have been addressed, and, might I say, in as simple and economical way as possible. Many systems can get one aspect right (often an irrelevant one in high end audio!), but rarely do you hear something get it all right. Iíve heard a few AES conventionsí and CEDIAsí worth of show demos, several companiesí listening rooms, several DIYersí offerings, and messed around with quite a few setups myself, but Iíve never quite seen something put it all together the way this did. To put this in a bigger perspective, I also have friends who have or are working as audio engineers (systems and/or transducers) for Boston Acoustics, Klipsch, Legacy, DCM, Bose, EAW, Electrovoice, Eminence, Pioneer, MTX, Visteon, and Harman, and while I canít speak directly for them, I have enough shared listening experience to say with some certainty that theyíd all be very impressed.

This is one seriously good system; everyone who can give it a listen should jump at the opportunity.
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Old 11th July 2008, 05:30 AM   #564
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... the phrase "ringing endorsement" comes to mind!

Must feel good, Earl.
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Old 11th July 2008, 07:55 AM   #565
WT is offline WT
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Originally posted by gedlee


The entire line of ESP products are available in Thailand through www.AI-audio.com. However they are not the kits that I sell here, although the designs are identical - only the cabinet construction is different. But Ai has not agreed to make the kits. You need to contact Kenny at kenny.jackel@ai-audio.com and ask him if he will make kits available to you. If there is only one buyer in thailand then this probably won't occur, but enough customers might interest him.
Thanks. Already send him an e-mail.

In your opinion, is there some benefit for 12" over 10" for small room ( 5.5 meter x 7 meter).
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Old 11th July 2008, 03:49 PM   #566
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by WT


Thanks. Already send him an e-mail.

In your opinion, is there some benefit for 12" over 10" for small room ( 5.5 meter x 7 meter).

Yes, from what I have seen, and that is not a lot, the 12" is quite an advance over the 10". Its also bigger and more expensive. The 15" is a bit better than the 12", but again quite a bit bigger and more expensive. To me the sweet spot is the 12". The creme-de-la-creme is the Summa. Just makes sense doesn't it?
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Old 11th July 2008, 03:56 PM   #567
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Thanks RYBaudio.

Its good to know that a life spent in creating a good audio system has not been wasted and that people can appreciate it. Science really will win out every time over subjectivism, but surely its going to be a very long time before people come to accept that. I've been saying this all my life, mostly to a disbelieving audience. When people do come to believe that science is a better tool for audio design than ears then they will also stop being tools of marketing and sensibilty will once again creep back into audio purchasing and hopefully audio value. What many fail to realize is how inexpensive my system is given its ratings. We are not talking about mega buck installations and electronics only a sensible approach to the allocation of the resources.
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Old 12th July 2008, 02:20 AM   #568
jdubs is offline jdubs  United States
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E-mailed...thanks Earl.

-Jim
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Old 12th July 2008, 02:24 AM   #569
agent.5 is offline agent.5  United States
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Dr. Gedlee,

do you have any recommendations on books, papers, etc on speaker and room integration?

I live in your typical California wood framed construction and I am actually listening to my neighbour's stereo system right now and she is now even playing that loud, but sounds just go stratight through the wall.
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Old 12th July 2008, 03:21 AM   #570
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally posted by agent.5
Dr. Gedlee,

do you have any recommendations on books, papers, etc on speaker and room integration?

I live in your typical California wood framed construction and I am actually listening to my neighbour's stereo system right now and she is now even playing that loud, but sounds just go stratight through the wall.

My book on Home Theater has a lot on noise control, but your situation is going to be a tough one. Good luck.
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