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Old 6th July 2008, 05:54 AM   #531
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Default Re: Re: Re: Summa review... A musicianís perspective

Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee




What you say is quite true, it takes everything to achieve excellence, but isn't the point that I know how to do all aspects of the problem. I'm not just an expert on waveguides, I have a deep understand of the whole gamut of what it takes to achieve excellent sound reproduction.

I would also like to point out that I did not know a single one of those reviewers prior to their coming to my home. There was no bias, no obligations or loyalities, just honest reviews.
Maybe I was unclear in what I wrote but yes, that was my point exactly. Anyone who wants the full benefit of Summas needs to take note of ALL the things you are saying ( I even have a sneaking suspicion that even , well damped bass response is nearly as important as any other factors in the enjoyable reproduction of music ) not just think they can buy / build your speakers , stick them in a room, and get all the benefits that the people who visit your home are hearing.
I was casting no aspersions on either the " reviewers " or yourself in regards to the reviews. I wrote reviews in inverted commas because whilst very helpful and no doubt totally honest I dont think these write ups constitute what I might expect from an review. I think audition might be a fair description. This is a very, very minor point and I only seek to clarify it as you seem to think my post had some negative connotation which it did not in any way.
As I have posted previosly I am keen to try your way, which makes nothing but good sense to me , and will send a deposit for 15" waveguides to build Abbey + just as soon as you indicate you are accepting them. Cheers Mike
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Old 6th July 2008, 12:53 PM   #532
MEH is offline MEH  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee


I'd be happy to supply you with bandpass designs or sell you some bandpass woofers, either way suites me.
Earl,

I know you don't want to get in the business of selling subwoofers; however, if you are familiar enough with designing them that you can just shake the designs out of your sleeve (as Frank Lloyd Wright used to say), then I know that the DIY community and the buyers of your kits would greatly appreciate having a set of subwoofers plans "approved for use with Gedlee waveguide kits." Of course, in designing them you'd be faced with the same trade-offs between size, price, and performance that you've faced with the kits, so maybe we could again hope for two options: one emphasizing small and relatively less expensive while maintaining audio quality that you can tolerate having your name associated with, the other emphasizing audio quality while maintaining size and price that you still judge to be reasonable.

Of course, you are under no obligation to provide such designs, and pointing to existing designs or commercial products that fit the need would be almost as good; but if you could and would post approved subwoofer designs (and setup/placement guidelines) on the page with your kit information, we'd be very grateful.
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Old 6th July 2008, 02:05 PM   #533
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Summa review... A musicianís perspective

Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Ando


Maybe I was unclear in what I wrote but yes, that was my point exactly. Anyone who wants the full benefit of Summas needs to take note of ALL the things you are saying ( I even have a sneaking suspicion that even , well damped bass response is nearly as important as any other factors in the enjoyable reproduction of music ) not just think they can buy / build your speakers , stick them in a room, and get all the benefits that the people who visit your home are hearing.
I was casting no aspersions on either the " reviewers " or yourself in regards to the reviews. I wrote reviews in inverted commas because whilst very helpful and no doubt totally honest I dont think these write ups constitute what I might expect from an review. I think audition might be a fair description. This is a very, very minor point and I only seek to clarify it as you seem to think my post had some negative connotation which it did not in any way.
As I have posted previosly I am keen to try your way, which makes nothing but good sense to me , and will send a deposit for 15" waveguides to build Abbey + just as soon as you indicate you are accepting them. Cheers Mike
I understood that you had no negative connotation to your note.

The point that I was trying to add, as you say, is that audio takes more than just buying the right pieces - which you also have to do. I was also responding to a side note that I got saying that just because I understand waveguides doesn't mean that I know all about audio. The fact is that I do know ALL about audio, every aspect. I just happen to be the leading expert on waveguides.

It takes doing everything that I do to get audio like I get. I really do think that people who buy just my waveguides hoping to design and build thier own systems will fall short of thier expectations. There is a lot more in my designs than just a waveguide.
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Old 6th July 2008, 02:09 PM   #534
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by MEH

Earl,

Of course, you are under no obligation to provide such designs, and pointing to existing designs or commercial products that fit the need would be almost as good; but if you could and would post approved subwoofer designs (and setup/placement guidelines) on the page with your kit information, we'd be very grateful.
What I would most likely do is to enclose a set of plans for the subs with a purchase. I am disinclined to post the plans in the public domain. If supplied with the kit then the plans are copyrighted and it is illegal to disseminate them without permission. If posted then they are public domain and anyone can use them freely.

I will also sell the drivers for the subs at my "prefereed" rate.
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Old 6th July 2008, 03:40 PM   #535
MEH is offline MEH  United States
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That works, but posting the plans does not imply a loss of copyright or inability to choose licensing terms. Even if it did, what is wrong with the plans being public domain if you have no intention of profiting from their sale?
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Old 6th July 2008, 03:55 PM   #536
phi is offline phi  Sweden
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Quote:
I'm still trying to get an arrangement with B&C for EU and Australia. But, I'm not having much success. I suspect that they will not want to supply me with the parts outside of the US for contractual reasons. I can buy them here and ship them anywhere, but they will not want to give me the same price if they come out of some other country. This just seems obviuos to me.
To Earl: In what way does it seem obvious you?

To me it is not that obvious. Yes I can understand if they won't give you exacly the same prices as in the US, they want to compensate for the higher costs running a company i Europe (I am guessing here), but part from that I can only see enterprice strategics, politics. If you manufacture a loudspeaker in china, weather you send it to the US or to Europe should not make a difference.

The global warming discussion is a hot topic at the moment. If you can show to B&C that you are going to sell quite some amount of speakers in e.g. Europe, how will they defend that they send loudspekars to the US that will be distibuted all over Europe after that? (Yes, I am trying to find arguments, don't know if it's helpfull or not)

Quote:
But, quite honestly, it appears to me that the best deal for EU customeres is to just buy the speakers fully assembled. Thats the minimum shipping size, weight and cost. Shipping the parts, will simply not be cost effective.
Don't follow you here. Yes this will make the fees a fraction of the cost but the difference in end price will be hughe (I am making this assumtion from the prices that have been mentioned on this thread about the Summas).

You are doing a very good thing here Mr Geddes. I want you to earn money on what you have dedicated your life in doing. So this is no criticism in any way, just keep up the good work.

//Per
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Old 6th July 2008, 05:46 PM   #537
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by MEH
That works, but posting the plans does not imply a loss of copyright or inability to choose licensing terms. Even if it did, what is wrong with the plans being public domain if you have no intention of profiting from their sale?

I believe that posting the design does allow anyone to use it without reagrd to its origin. Sending it along with the purchased product and noting that the material is copyrighted and cannot be distributed without permission means that only the original customer can make the designs because they cannot copy and distribute the plans.

What my current plans are and what they might be need not be the same thing and so it is best to keep my options open. Putting the designs in the public domain limits those options.
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Old 6th July 2008, 05:50 PM   #538
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by phi


To Earl: In what way does it seem obvious you?

To me it is not that obvious. Yes I can understand if they won't give you exacly the same prices as in the US, they want to compensate for the higher costs running a company i Europe (I am guessing here), but part from that I can only see enterprice strategics, politics. If you manufacture a loudspeaker in china, weather you send it to the US or to Europe should not make a difference.

Don't follow you here. Yes this will make the fees a fraction of the cost but the difference in end price will be hughe (I am making this assumtion from the prices that have been mentioned on this thread about the Summas).

//Per

B&C has agreements with distributors in the other countries. If I sell in those countries then this circumvents the local distributor. This is usually against the agreement between the parties. B&C drivers are not made in China they are made in Italy.

I was not talking about the Summas, but about the Nathan, Abbey and Abbey+. I think that an assembled system would be very competitive with what the prices will be in say Sweden if the parts are purchased locally and then assembled.
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Old 6th July 2008, 06:40 PM   #539
phi is offline phi  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee

B&C has agreements with distributors in the other countries. If I sell in those countries then this circumvents the local distributor. This is usually against the agreement between the parties. B&C drivers are not made in China they are made in Italy.
Thank you, yes I know it woks like you say. I think I am just protesting against how things are working in this more and more global world.

Made in Italy, even stranger then that it is cheeper to send the speakers forth and back over the atlantic ocean !

I shall try to sitt back and just wait for some good things to happen now and not waist your time.

//Per
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Old 6th July 2008, 07:05 PM   #540
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by phi

Made in Italy, even stranger then that it is cheeper to send the speakers forth and back over the atlantic ocean !

//Per

Well its not actually. But the part that I don't understand is why the prices in EU are so high.
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