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Old 5th July 2008, 10:46 AM   #521
phi is offline phi  Sweden
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Quote:
It seems to me that shipping the drivers to the UK would easily eat up the savings as they are very heavy and weight is the big cost factor. A quick quote from FedEx says about $500 per pair, for everything, most of that for the drivers. About $250 for the cabinets alone and $160 for just the baffles. This are just approximate numbers.
Hello Earl and everyone else...

I just recently shipped speakers from the US to Sweden and was shocked by the fees and charges, the taxes and toll were no suprice.

The strange thing is, it is still cheeper to buy it from the US!

The attached table will hopefully give some clues what I am talking about. Some ruff calculations give that you (for Sweden) should multiply the US-prices by 1.75 to get the final cost. Yes, please you US people, stop complaining about the prices

How come, well you have the shipment it self, airport fees, transportation company fees (FedEx, Schenker etc), toll and on top of it all, including the goods, you have 25% tax (Sweden)!

Count $150 for airport fees, transportation company fees (FedEx, Schenker etc) and around $5 per kilogram of goods and then add the VAT for your country.

I would say the more expensive the thing is that you ship the better the final price. The percentage of the fees diminish.



Explanations for the table:
*1) www.bluearan.co.uk; Includes VAT
*2) Hi-Fi Kit, Prophone; Includes VAT
*3 DE250-8, i.e. 8 ohm version

Some questions:
1. Have you had any success in finding good prices on B&C speakers in Europť? In Germany I found, bcdistribution@t-online.de, this seems to me like a directly connected B&C distributor?

2. I cannot find the DE250 in a 16 ohm verison i Europe?!

Count me in for the highest quality version, may it be the Abbey+ or hopefully the Summa's as a kit. I will transfer 2 times $200 to you.

//Per
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Old 5th July 2008, 04:12 PM   #522
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by phi
Some questions:
1. Have you had any success in finding good prices on B&C speakers in Europť? In Germany I found, bcdistribution@t-online.de, this seems to me like a directly connected B&C distributor?

2. I cannot find the DE250 in a 16 ohm verison i Europe?!

Count me in for the highest quality version, may it be the Abbey+ or hopefully the Summa's as a kit. I will transfer 2 times $200 to you.

//Per

I'm still trying to get an arrangement with B&C for EU and Australia. But, I'm not having much success. I suspect that they will not want to supply me with the parts outside of the US for contractual reasons. I can buy them here and ship them anywhere, but they will not want to give me the same price if they come out of some other country. This just seems obviuos to me.

Its not a problem to change the crossover for the 8 ohm version of the DE250, I will do that for the EU products.

But, quite honestly, it appears to me that the best deal for EU customeres is to just buy the speakers fully assembled. Thats the minimum shipping size, weight and cost. Shipping the parts, will simply not be cost effective.
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Old 5th July 2008, 04:13 PM   #523
limono is offline limono  United States
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Well considering that US dollar fell on his neck and its half(or so) it used to be I don't quite understand many concerns from non-US customers This is the time to "Buy American"
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Old 5th July 2008, 11:13 PM   #524
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Last time I checked I could buy B & C drivers here

Perhaps what you need is a retailor of the B & C importer to market your kit / design. There are a number of people who do that sort of thing for other brands like Seas, Peerless and Visation ie Soundlabs Group.

The actual HT market here is quite substantial based on widescreen sales.

I am not going to tell you how to suck eggs but if it were me I would get some product to 6moons for review ie Edgar Krammer is a freelance writer over here and let the market help you.

Create some awareness and position your product in the market.

From there work out distribution.

A lot of installers like Audio Connection and Len Wallis ,one of the largest hifi retailers world wide based on $ sales specificy hi end Home Theatre loudspeakers. The timing is jsut about right with Blue Ray and the awareness of the new hi def audio standards .

Of course someone has to make them and you have Q & A and all the rest of the EC compliance and THX standards to deal with. If that all seem like too much hard work and you just dont want all the issues then license the manufacture to someone in the business and enjoy a happy retirement



Australia


ACOUSTIC TECHNOLOGIES ELECTRONICS PTY LTD


Summer Park - QLD 4074
Brisbane - Austalia
Tel.+61 7 33764122
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Old 5th July 2008, 11:53 PM   #525
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by macka
Last time I checked I could buy B & C drivers here
Of course, I know the importer, his wife used to work for me and Ai bought B&C drivers from him.


Quote:
Originally posted by macka

Of course someone has to make them and you have Q & A and all the rest of the EC compliance and THX standards to deal with. If that all seem like too much hard work and you just dont want all the issues then license the manufacture to someone in the business and enjoy a happy retirement

Australia
THX is not something I'm likely to ever get since it a scam and I don't play those sort of games. Legal compliance is usually not difficult for passive loudspeakers. Licensing is what I want to do especially for overseas. Ai is looking into this.
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Old 5th July 2008, 11:57 PM   #526
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Default Update on Nathans

Finally got all the bugs worked out on the casting process. Was able to cast about a half dozen parts today and they all came out fine. Some small cosmetic issues, but since they have to be painted these are not a problem.

I will be making up and shipping the kits shortly. Next step is a manual. It will be very short, just enough detail for the knowledgable builder to get them together.
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Old 6th July 2008, 12:21 AM   #527
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Default Re: Summa review... A musicianís perspective

Quote:
Originally posted by DrumDude
I have been a drummer and percussionist for about 30 years. I began looking into DIY designs when it appeared there were no mainstream commercial offerings that achieved what I desired for my newly built studio. This room is a shared space used for music rehearsal, my wifeís dance classes, and recording studio. I wanted the accuracy and quality of a studio monitor and PA levels for music rehearsal when needed, in a single speaker. I have always thought if a speaker was good enough it would work as both and I don't care for the sound of most pro horns. I know this was a tall order and as I began reading about speaker design it was always a story of trade-offs to achieve the desired result.

I ran across Dr. Geddes information on waveguides and read this thread and others with great interest. I read several of his white papers even though some of the math made my head hurt.

When I realized I was going to be less than an hour from his place on a weekend trip I knew I wanted to hear these speakers. So I convinced my wife to stop by on the drive home.
I arrived at about 8:30am. Dr. Geddes was kind and inviting, even offering us a cup of coffee. I found out he had been at a big music festival in WI and didnít get home till 1:00AM. This impressed me on two counts. Firstly welcoming us into his home after a late night, secondly itís nice to learn heís a true music lover as well as a scientist.

We went down to his home theater where we started listening to some familiar audio CDís. The first thing that struck me was absolute pinpoint imaging. The clarity and accuracy was astonishing. Instruments sounded like instruments, not recordings. I have been many recording studios over the years and have never heard sound this accurate, not the big soffit mounted JBLís or any near fields. Then he fired up the projector to play some concert DVDís. Dr. Geddes was in the process of replacing projectors so the projector wasnít ceiling mounted. This means my wife and I had to move from the usual sweet spot in the center of the couch. Guess what, the image stayed spot on. After noticing this I leaned even farther away from center towards the side wall. The image never collapsed. The levels were going up at this point. The amazing thing was everything remained so clear, the sound just got louder, sonic balance never changed, no compression whatsoever. We listened to some Cream and it sounded like Marshall stacks and Harke bass cabs were in the room. The bass was never boomy or muddy; it was like a bass player was right there. And the drums, oh my god, drums are the torture test for most speakers, good reproduction of sharp transients requires headroom. The kick drum was the most realistic I have ever heard. Actually all the drums sounded like a kit was in the room, cymbals were perfect with every overtone and nuance. Next Dr. Geddes put on an eagles live DVD. It had reached ear piercing levels by this time and Joe Walsh was wailing on his guitar like he is known to. As loud as the guitar was I could still clearly hear every other part with perfect stereo placement and detail. They don't appear to color anything. It would seem they are the final link in the idealistic wire plus gain theory I have heard touted as the perfect amp.

I wouldnít have any problem recommending these for use in any studio, even for mastering. They are the most revealing speakers I have ever heard. I also wouldnít have any problem recommending the very same speakers for use in any nightclub. I would think you could pair them with some high efficiency pro subs and they would kill every club systems I have ever heard.
I donít know what else to say except I Have to have these!

Bruce K


My wife's impressions follow below:

From a Womenís view point:

First of all let me say that Dr. Geddes was a gracious host, inviting us into his home at 8AM after arriving home the previous night at 1AM.

I have worked in the music business for about 30 years and spent many a night in the studio with mix downs until I didnít think I could hear anymore. I was blown away by these speakers. I felt like I was sitting in front of a live performance! Several songs, that I have heard a thousand times, was a new experience, hearing instrumentation that I never knew was there. So, as for soundÖoutstanding!!!! I agree with my husband that these speakers should become the industry standard.

Now, from the female viewpoint of aesthetics, because I also love interior design and my husband is always trying to find ways of designing the function, but also pleasing to the eye for me, I have to say that I love the design! They are so beautiful that I wouldnít have a problem having them in my living room, or any room! They look like a beautiful piece of sculpture. In fact, there were a gorgeous pair of red ones in his living room that I would have loved to have in our music studio, but alas, they have already been spoken for.

We will be getting these speakers, as there is nothing on the market today that can even come close to their amazing sound. Thank you Dr. Geddes!
There have now been a number of very positive " reviews " of Dr Geddes Summas. I assume that in people writing about hearing the Summas at Dr Geddes home are really writing about hearing a system including a distributed woofer arrangement. I wonder how much the excellent reported sound quality is down to the woofer system and the room which , as a result of Dr Geddes expertise, is no doubt excellent. I imagine to approach the level of excellence reported you need all three parts , Summas , distributed woofers and appropriate room. It seems that the main speakers are just a ( necessary ) step toward a Geddes quality result.
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Old 6th July 2008, 01:46 AM   #528
swett is offline swett  United States
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I agree about the subs. Since I will be the new owner of those Red Summas, I am interested in what subs Earl and others would recommend. In terms of bandpass, DIY seems the obvious way to go, since there are few commercial options.

My goal is a sub I can put into a 13" cube. I found this Dayton 10" could be put into a decent bandpass of about 1 ft3.

But there aren't many DIY bandpass designs, so I'm open to any suggestions.
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Old 6th July 2008, 04:08 AM   #529
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Default Re: Re: Summa review... A musicianís perspective

Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Ando


There have now been a number of very positive " reviews " of Dr Geddes Summas. I assume that in people writing about hearing the Summas at Dr Geddes home are really writing about hearing a system including a distributed woofer arrangement. I wonder how much the excellent reported sound quality is down to the woofer system and the room which , as a result of Dr Geddes expertise, is no doubt excellent. I imagine to approach the level of excellence reported you need all three parts , Summas , distributed woofers and appropriate room. It seems that the main speakers are just a ( necessary ) step toward a Geddes quality result.


What you say is quite true, it takes everything to achieve excellence, but isn't the point that I know how to do all aspects of the problem. I'm not just an expert on waveguides, I have a deep understand of the whole gamut of what it takes to achieve excellent sound reproduction.

I would also like to point out that I did not know a single one of those reviewers prior to their coming to my home. There was no bias, no obligations or loyalities, just honest reviews.
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Old 6th July 2008, 04:13 AM   #530
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by swett
I agree about the subs. Since I will be the new owner of those Red Summas, I am interested in what subs Earl and others would recommend. In terms of bandpass, DIY seems the obvious way to go, since there are few commercial options.

My goal is a sub I can put into a 13" cube. I found this Dayton 10" could be put into a decent bandpass of about 1 ft3.

But there aren't many DIY bandpass designs, so I'm open to any suggestions.
I'd be happy to supply you with bandpass designs or sell you some bandpass woofers, either way suites me.
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