DIY Waveguide loudspeaker kit

[nycavsr2000]

Originally Posted by gedlee

Hi Anand

The material cost increase with poly is about $100 each speaker and another $50 in cost increases on the parts and the additional components.

So you are indeed undercharging given that the increase in cost per speaker is $150, however your charge is only $200 per speaker.

A $50 profit makes you a saint to your customers, but certainly underpriced from a business standpoint .

A thumbs up for you to have more orders so you can recuperate from quantity sales .

Anand.

[gedlee]

And the thing is that I know how to reduce the costs by about five times. I am talking with my Chinese client now obout doing this and importing the products. This would blow the doors off of the market.

[Ray Collins]

Keep us updated...

Ray

[gedlee]

Yes, well this is years off if it ever happens, and 5 times lower cost does not mean five times lower price.

[jheyau]

If the Summas can be offered at about $5000 a pair, that would probably forever stop those who crave for active pro monitors such as the Klein-Hummel o410 or even the o500c and the new Genelec 8620a! One can always power the Summas with any existing amps or receivers found in the house and not having to worry about compatibility or power output, and most people have at least one sub, just get 2 or 3 additional inexpensive subs such as the Polk PSW 10 and we'll have a system that will be equal or superior to most of the mega-buck audiophile speakers out there! There are already a few enlightened ones out there who have replaced their prestigious high-priced audiophile models with the Abbeys! I'm starting my savings today

[ewildgoose]

jheyau: Curious that I just read your comment. I was literally just eyeing up the Genelec 1037, 8260a or an Abbey....

Now, I confess I have never really heard any horns, so I don't know what I am getting into. I also have a fairly small listening room (4m x 8m ish) which is an odd shape and needs to have reasonable WAF factor.

I have spoken to Earl when he first started producing his waveguide speakers and I was very interested back then and it was only the size of the Suma which put me off, however, the Abbey looks workable (sizewise)

So the question is really how you would compare the 3way Genelecs with the Abbey? The published data is reasonably hard to compare, but as I see it the Genelec figures look pretty ruler flat over a wider range and further towards the 20Khz mark. They also appear to decline slower off axis and appear to offer extremely well controlled dispersion.

In contrast the Abbey appears to have a narrower flat on axis range. The low end doesn't worry me too much because I will be trying to integrate with my IB sub, but the high end seems to roll off a little faster than desired? The off-axis seems to decline much faster (which I think is what I expect from a horn?) and seems very well controlled as we go off-axis. It's hard to figure out the graph key to the off-axis plots on the gedlee site though?

Any comments on the relative audio performance of the Abbey vs the Genelec? Especially interested if Earl wanted to offer his 2p?

Thanks

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by ewildgoose

jheyau: Curious that I just read your comment. I was literally just eyeing up the Genelec 1037, 8260a or an Abbey....

Now, I confess I have never really heard any horns, so I don't know what I am getting into. I also have a fairly small listening room (4m x 8m ish) which is an odd shape and needs to have reasonable WAF factor.

I have spoken to Earl when he first started producing his waveguide speakers and I was very interested back then and it was only the size of the Suma which put me off, however, the Abbey looks workable (sizewise)

So the question is really how you would compare the 3way Genelecs with the Abbey? The published data is reasonably hard to compare, but as I see it the Genelec figures look pretty ruler flat over a wider range and further towards the 20Khz mark. They also appear to decline slower off axis and appear to offer extremely well controlled dispersion.

In contrast the Abbey appears to have a narrower flat on axis range. The low end doesn't worry me too much because I will be trying to integrate with my IB sub, but the high end seems to roll off a little faster than desired? The off-axis seems to decline much faster (which I think is what I expect from a horn?) and seems very well controlled as we go off-axis. It's hard to figure out the graph key to the off-axis plots on the gedlee site though?

Any comments on the relative audio performance of the Abbey vs the Genelec? Especially interested if Earl wanted to offer his 2p?

Thanks

The faster fall off off-axis is highly desirable IMO, it's what I believe makes the Abbey the better choice. I can't speak to other companies products (I don;t know the details on whats inside), but Genelec has a good name and their stuff is very good, I agree, but I do not think that the price ranges for the same basic systems (take woofer size for example) are comparable.

I would also say that there are "horns" and then there are my waveguides. The two things are entirely different - thats why mine have a patent.

It is a shame about "graphs" because everybody does them differently. That makes comparisons even more difficult. I would say that it would be wise for you to learn to read these graphs so that you are comfortable with the comparisons, because until you can do that, this kind of data, which is the most relavent, is not going to suite its purpose for you. I tried to post information on my site about what the data means and how to read it. Thats not always easy to do.

To me the narrower directivity is a key element in the comparisons that you are making, but you seem to take the position that the faster fall off is a bad thing, To me its a key design requirement - especially for a small room.

It's hard to figure out the graph key to the off-axis plots on the gedlee site though?

I'm not sure I know what youre having trouble with. Read the paper on directivity - it explains polar maps pretty well I think.

[ewildgoose]

err, well actually I have a suspicion that a faster falloff could be helpful in a small room, that's why I'm investigating waveguide solutions rather than openbaffle designs (say). I believe the Genelec solution is also technically a waveguide? However, I lack the experience of having heard a range of stuff in various sized rooms to be doing this from more than an intuitive guesswork position

Regards your graphs there isn't obviously a key on the right hand graph so it's not immediately obvious which line relates to what number of degrees of axis? Are they 5 degree measurements?

I will re-read the papers you referenced, but unless you updated them recently I think I have read them a few times over the last 5+ years? It's possible that you are mis-reading my post though...?

Oh, you didn't comment on the HF rolloff from the Abbey? Seems a fairly steep rolloff from a little over 10Khz, but the graph is kind of hard to see up there? How does this bear out audibly?

Any happy Abbey (new and improved) owners hang out here?

[markus76]

Originally Posted by ewildgoose

Regards your graphs there isn't obviously a key on the right hand graph so it's not immediately obvious which line relates to what number of degrees of axis? Are they 5 degree measurements?

Yes, the labeling is missing so we don't know

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by ewildgoose

I believe the Genelec solution is also technically a waveguide? However, I lack the experience of having heard a range of stuff in various sized rooms to be doing this from more than an intuitive guesswork position

Regards your graphs there isn't obviously a key on the right hand graph so it's not immediately obvious which line relates to what number of degrees of axis? Are they 5 degree measurements?

I will re-read the papers you referenced, but unless you updated them recently I think I have read them a few times over the last 5+ years?

Oh, you didn't comment on the HF rolloff from the Abbey? Seems a fairly steep rolloff from a little over 10Khz, but the graph is kind of hard to see up there? How does this bear out audibly?

Any happy Abbey (new and improved) owners hang out here?

"Technically" the Genelec thing is a waveguide, but it's not a waveguide in the same sense as I use the term. Its far too wide to work in the manner in which I intend my to work.

The directivity paper is only a few months old.

The curves are every 7.5 degrees, from 0 - 90.

Yes, the HF rolloff. I used to not even test above 10 kHz because I give this region such little importance. There is signal to about 16 kHz, but then ,yes it drop significantly above that. Is this important. IMO not in the least. Its "specsmanship" that drives the belief that > 10 kHz has any relavence. There is also a LP anti-aliasing filter out there somewhere as well. This is also a factor.

As far as happy owners go, I update the reviews on my site regularly so you can read from several owners.