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Old 8th May 2008, 11:30 PM   #101
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrismercurio
I think people would pay for box plans, a driver (or 2), and a plate amp.
Thats still about $300 (plus shipping). Is that acceptable? There actually is a guy in New Orleans who is going to build subs under license. His will be about $600. So that an option. But me building subs, even as kits, makes no sense.
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Old 8th May 2008, 11:39 PM   #102
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee


Having a lot of experince here, ONE 18" sub (the ULF18) is definately enough SPL for the large ESP15.
You mean with non bass filtered Summas I presume.
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Old 8th May 2008, 11:40 PM   #103
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by salas


You mean with non bass filtered Summas I presume.

I'm not sure that I follow. I never filter the mains. Thats why I use closed boxes and small cabinets.
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Old 8th May 2008, 11:45 PM   #104
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee



I'm not sure that I follow. I never filter the mains. Thats why I use closed boxes and small cabinets.

You follow. I just asked if one sub's SPL is enough, provided the mains remain non filtered. Because if someone filters the mains, it looks to me that more subs are needed to follow in SPL a couple of ESP15s.
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Old 8th May 2008, 11:49 PM   #105
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by salas



You follow. I just asked if one sub's SPL is enough, provided the mains remain non filtered. Because if someone filters the mains, it looks to me that more subs are needed to follow in SPL a couple of ESP15s.

Yes, you are quite correct. The mains add a lot of SPL to the LF situation.
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Old 10th May 2008, 10:49 PM   #106
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Default Re: Re: the missing pieces....

Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee



I have sub designs, but there isn't any way to make any money on these as the value added is so small. I have to get $400 each for the sub kits and this is just not in line with the mains kits cost wise. I can't see how anyone would pay $400 for a sub when the mains are only $600. Maybe I'm wrong and I'll rethink this. Maybe I'll just sell the plans (like that has any potential!).
After our discussion in '04, I started doing the "multiple sub" routine. I agree, it sounds better. One unexpected side effect is that you can get away with stupid cheap drivers, because you don't need much power handling.

My garage looks like a speaker warehouse, I probably have a hundred drivers. So when I built my subs, I literally found half a dozen woofers, then measured them one-by-one with the PE Woofer Tester until I found three that had the right Thiele Small specs for my enclosure. One of the best candidates was a craaptastic MTX Blue Thunder woofer that I bought used off of Ebay for $40! Actually, Blue Thunder was hot stuff at the time, but that was almost 20 years ago.

To make a long story short, you CAN make really cheap subs if you can find a place to hide them. The use of an exotic $300 subwoofer driver is overkill sometimes.
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Old 11th May 2008, 12:52 AM   #107
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Patrick

Quite true.
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Old 12th May 2008, 02:26 AM   #108
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I want to share my experience I was lucky enough to have on Saturday morning.

I have been following several threads on DIYaudio over the last few months and this one has really had my attention from the beginning.

I am your typical audiophile who is constantly buying and selling gear trying to improve the sound of the system. I have reached the point where I actually think things through before buying and selling something so I have a goal of what I am searching for.

My current system is Emerald Physics CS2 speakers combined with a highly modified Behringer DCX 2496 with the low frequencies driven by Odyssey Audio Stratos Monoblocks (SE boards & upgrades). I have settled on a DIY First Watt F3 amp for the high frequencies. These speakers do more things right than wrong and I have fallen for many of their excellent qualities.

I live in driving distance of Dr. Geddes and he was kind enough to allow me the opportunity to hear his Summa speakers and to ask questions about the kit that he has put together.

First things first. Dr. Geddes was really friendly to have me over without knowing me and to answer my questions. He was also kind enough to let me play several cds that I am very familiar with so I could have a better grasp of the sound I was hearing.

The sound of the Summa speakers was extremely pure. At first I thought I was not hearing all the bass I should be. I found out very soon this was not the case. Dr. Geddes believes in using multiple subs to get the bass right in a room. I have never heard of this approach before and as the morning went on I realized how realistic it sounded. The Summas have a realistic sound that I have not heard in any speaker system before. We listened to different types of music on the system and I was very impressed with what I heard.

Dr. Geddes also played a few concert dvds and the DTS soundtrack to them. This is where the sound levels went up. I could not believe how open the sound was. We were listening at near concert levels and it was as close to being at a concert as I have ever heard. The dynamics were astounding and there was no compression. I also experienced zero listener fatigue which is absolutely crucial for me.

Contrasting the sound I heard in his room to what I have become used to with my system led me to several observations. I believe the CS2 is a very competent design and an excellent sounding speaker system especially when you factor in cost. I don't think that I will ever be able to attain the midrange I am looking for with my current speakers. I think that using an extremely well designed two way speaker with very high quality drivers paired with multiple subwoofers placed properly will be the way to the sound I am searching for. The bass and dynamics in his room were the most realistic I have heard. It didn't sound like a stereo system it sounded live. I was completely stunned to find out the modest electronics that were used in this system. I am not saying they weren't good, they obviously are based on the sound I heard. I just expected the electronics to cost thousands more to achieve the sound quality that I heard.

I also had a chance to see the prototype of the kit that is being offered. To say that I am interested and intrigued would be an understatement.

I am very thankful that I had the opportunity to hear the Summa and that I have a better understanding of the design and how excellent it actually sounds.

I have extremely high hopes for the kit that is being offered. I will continue to follow this thread and may very well take on the project.

-Nick
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Old 12th May 2008, 02:51 AM   #109
ttan98 is online now ttan98  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by nicksgem10s
I believe the CS2 is a very competent design and an excellent sounding speaker system especially when you factor in cost. I don't think that I will ever be able to attain the midrange I am looking for with my current speakers.

-Nick
Thank you for giving us your impression of the Summa speakers and its comparison with CS2.

Your comments above about the midrange of CS2, do you mean that as the system as it stands you cannot improve on the midrange. If that is so then a 3 way speakers would solve the problem, by having a dedicated midrange.

I personally believe a 2-way speaker, with careful selection of drivers will sound very good even in the mid-range. Having said this a good sounding 2-way speakers may come from AudioKinesis eventhough I have not heard them myself..
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Old 12th May 2008, 03:04 AM   #110
SunRa is offline SunRa  Romania
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Thank for your comments, it's good to actually have some impressions regarding this design.
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