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Old 14th March 2007, 01:31 AM   #41
JandG is offline JandG  United States
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Hey Dmason,, the Calrad's suck bigtime.....*s*....No what I mean man.. Richard....Dave explains it real good I think on why it works on integration. You can try higher up ,, but.......you might want to just put a very small, very high xo. Used .22uf & no resistors when no coil is on B200. As far as the Bash plates I run 1 -300S per side, so a pair of em..The driver you are looking at I magine will outperform my bass driver easy..A TVC is just a Transformer volume controle.. any pre would do with mulitple outs would work, but you can not tap off the amp & use high level in on plate amps, if you high pass the B200 amp.. so you must tap signal off pre or DAC or somewhere other than the B200 amp. If you run B200 alone which I like alot.. it is very good to run off the amp speaker outs & into high level in on the plates.wroks excellent...again I think the only reason this xo works is how Dave expains it,.
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Old 14th March 2007, 03:46 AM   #42
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Hi Dave and JandG ~

Thank you both for your interesting explanations of how a crossover
that sets its frequency values for each driver so far away from each other
could work.

Of course it goes against a great deal of current thinking where the speaker
designer tries to maintain a very steep slop between drivers so that the overlap
has a somewhat seamless carry-over of the frequency.

But there are also quite a few examples of multiple driver speakers that allow
one or more of the drivers to roll-off naturally so there is no use of a
crossover at all.

I find the upper frequency of the B200's to be very resolving on almost every
kind of music I play on it... however I am certain that what you are hearing,
JandG, is several magnitudes more refined, more detailed and more transparent.
And I can readily see how that can be addictive. Very exciting to think about.

Yes... I see what you mean about needing to run the RCA cables from the
pre-amp, perhaps with a splitter, for each Bash amp because of the
High Pass off the amp driving the B200 and Aurum Cantus tweeter.

I wonder what I can actually expect in the way of bass performance from the
Dayton 15" high excursion driver... I realize that back wave cancellation
issues are impossible to ignore and present a serious loss of bass presence...
here is certainly where EQ can be somewhat effective... whatever loss of
efficiency that would be a result of dialing in plus db's in the area most affected
by cancellation... from the high 30's to perhaps 180db's... would be offset by
the Bash's robust power reserves.

I am still in the dark as to what a PLLXO means, JandG (?)
("You have to run PLLXO to run ribbon with single 2uf cap @ 10K...")

Thanks again Dave and JandG for your help and insights.

Warm Regards ~ Richard
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Old 14th March 2007, 03:53 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by - RichardW -
I am still in the dark as to what a PLLXO means, JandG (?)
("You have to run PLLXO to run ribbon with single 2uf cap @ 10K...")
PLLXO ... Passive Line Level Crossover

http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/f...ssiveHLxo.html

J's statement is a bit confusing to top things off... he is saying that without the PLLXO on the mid-tweeter amp (as well as using the "official" technique detailed at the link above, one can just shrink the size of a coupling cap), the 2 uF passive XO on the tweeter does not work.

There could be a number of reasons. 1/ even at 10k a 1st order XO on a ribbon is streeful. Here the extra corner at 200 Hz would be a relief. 2/ relieving the B200 of bass energy improces its performance so it can keep up with the ribbon, 3/ the same also benefits the OPTs.

dave
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Old 14th March 2007, 07:10 PM   #44
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Dave,
no sane person would try a low Xover freq with a ribbon - how would a ballet dancer perform when carrying a sack of coals?

OTOH you live in BC - you wouldn't marry a ballet dancer who can't
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Old 14th March 2007, 07:24 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pit Hinder
a ballet dancer
In my youth i went out with a ballet dancer for a bit. Great fun.

dave
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Old 14th March 2007, 07:54 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


In my youth i went out with a ballet dancer for a bit. Great fun.

dave
Yup, if you are young enough to have the stamina.

But back to business - a ribbon tweet Xed in too low has more harmoncs than the midsinger it takes over from...sims don't give me any answer, so it's nothing but a theory. Ideas?



as usual - Pit
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Old 14th March 2007, 07:58 PM   #47
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A ribbon XOed too low is also a receipe for needing to replace the ribbon

dave
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Old 14th March 2007, 08:05 PM   #48
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Nice things, ribbons - you don't need to call the fire brigade when they do their funeral. OK, you are a pro, so you buy them wholesale...
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Old 14th March 2007, 08:17 PM   #49
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Hi Dave ~

Having no experience with Ribbon tweeters but being extremely interested in their
potential for rendering upper frequencies with extraordinary transparency
I find your above reference a suitable warning to the uninitiated... like me.

I wonder if you go into your insight with a bit more personal experience?

I assume you are talking about crossing over below the suggested range of the
manufacture... or are you suggesting that hard hitting frequencies in the lower
frequency range... below 7khz for example... can deconstruct the delicate
accordion foil of the ribbon?

I would deeply appreciate it if you could go into this important observation
more deeply.

Last time we chatted Dave... was about using your excellent service for putting
your beautifully designed phase plugs into my B200's... I am still interested in
having you do that for me... if only I could give up my B200's for the time it
would take to have you do that for me... right now I can't live without them!

Warm Regards ~ Richard
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Old 14th March 2007, 08:32 PM   #50
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If you look at the recommended XO point & slope for most ribbons you note that they are typically 2.5-3.5 kHz but with minimum 4th order/6th order preferred.

Way to steep for us FR guys.

1st order at 10k gives the same attenuation as a 4th order at 3.5 kHz at about 1.5 kHz. Below that it is getting more energy. The extra knee at 200 Hz (+ a 3rd knee at the frequency the OPT rolls off -- ie if you use a SS amp things will be worse), makes the difference between life & death. Fortunately replacement ribbons are fairly cheap & easy to install.

As to the B200s, you can always take the knife to them yourself :^)

dave
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