Hi all,
Interesting discussion going on here - i have two JX92S sitting on a shelf, waiting for an enclosure.
Originally, I was thinking along the lines of a ball enclosure (& a seperate sub-woofer for bass) - using a rigid plastic ship's float - but it turns out these are all now inflatables rather than hard plastic.
Has anybody done something along these lines - I need something with WAF
John
Interesting discussion going on here - i have two JX92S sitting on a shelf, waiting for an enclosure.
Originally, I was thinking along the lines of a ball enclosure (& a seperate sub-woofer for bass) - using a rigid plastic ship's float - but it turns out these are all now inflatables rather than hard plastic.
Has anybody done something along these lines - I need something with WAF
John
Hi John
You mean like this? I these are commercial but the manufacturer is on this forum as smallangryboy.
Alternatively, the MLTL triangles get good WAF (at least in this house. They look elegant and once placed back against a wall don't need to be moved and have small footprint. You can find them ...here.
And the Jordan VTL is very neat.
You mean like this? I these are commercial but the manufacturer is on this forum as smallangryboy.
Alternatively, the MLTL triangles get good WAF (at least in this house. They look elegant and once placed back against a wall don't need to be moved and have small footprint. You can find them ...here.
And the Jordan VTL is very neat.
Yes Colin, thanks for the links - just returned to this thread now - the 8ball is exactly it.
I've also seen it done in marble on Susan Parkers website: http://www.susan-parker.co.uk/susan-speaker-sphere.htm but I don't think she used JX92S drives, they look like other Jordan drives.
I was hoping somebody had done this already and could give a review of how it sounds and maybe where they may have sourced the buoys? I thought the buoys were the quick & easy way to achieve this at little cost but I find that modern buoys are not rigid plastic but inflatables now.
John
I've also seen it done in marble on Susan Parkers website: http://www.susan-parker.co.uk/susan-speaker-sphere.htm but I don't think she used JX92S drives, they look like other Jordan drives.
I was hoping somebody had done this already and could give a review of how it sounds and maybe where they may have sourced the buoys? I thought the buoys were the quick & easy way to achieve this at little cost but I find that modern buoys are not rigid plastic but inflatables now.
John
jkeny said:
John,
I have a feeling that they are/were from Bandor, but may be making 5 from two 2s.
Adding a subwoofer is probably overkill unless you have a very large room. Or need very small enclosures for WAF?
I used ovoids to avoid (Oooh! sorry) internal standing waves all at the same frequency. Not sure just how important that is.
Have re-instated the VTL. It is sounding good, better controlled bass than the Eggs, and top end seems much the same. Similar floorspace requirements. Must make the BSD correction match the baffle, to give a better comparison. At present it is being fed too much bass, which makes the control even more impressive.
My wife has not commented on the VTL, but as they are not tidied up, that is understandable. At least there was no immediate negative - did not even notice the change.
If you need extra "design" flair for the VTL, you could do a bit of something at the top to round it off. Even turn it sideways?
Andy
I wouldn't turn it sideways - it requires the wide baffle to sound its best. The baffle does give plenty of space for some veneer work, though.
Rather than plastic buoys, which may or may not have resonance problems, have a look for some suitably sized vases. I have a couple made from mango wood which are under severe threat of being turned into loudspeaker enclosures. They are 8 litres volume and in ovoid in shape (traditional curved vase shape). Thor, on the fullranger forum, is using ceramic vases from a DIY store. Once a wooden baffle is glued in place (liquid nails works) any ringing in the ceramic disappears.
Rather than plastic buoys, which may or may not have resonance problems, have a look for some suitably sized vases. I have a couple made from mango wood which are under severe threat of being turned into loudspeaker enclosures. They are 8 litres volume and in ovoid in shape (traditional curved vase shape). Thor, on the fullranger forum, is using ceramic vases from a DIY store. Once a wooden baffle is glued in place (liquid nails works) any ringing in the ceramic disappears.
Thanks RandyB,
So would you rate the sound from the Egg as good as your VTLs excluding Bass range? In other words is this worth pursuing?
Hi Colin,
I've been keeping my eyes open for suitable vases or similar ahped objects but so far haven't found anything suitable - thanks for the advice - any tips on where to source these ? - I'll keep looking as the buoys are not readily available anymore.
John
So would you rate the sound from the Egg as good as your VTLs excluding Bass range? In other words is this worth pursuing?
Hi Colin,
I've been keeping my eyes open for suitable vases or similar ahped objects but so far haven't found anything suitable - thanks for the advice - any tips on where to source these ? - I'll keep looking as the buoys are not readily available anymore.
John
John,
Sound of Eggs is good. I find small baffles give a clearer top end. You have probably done lots of reading on this site and other similar ones to discover plenty of reasons why that should be (and plenty of reasons why not, of course). If you build some, offset the driver from centre, and make them of the highest density chipboard you can find (flooring?) - then choose an excuse for the woodchip finish, or maybe expend much time and effort with filler and sandpaper round a sponge. If you are adding a subwoofer, then they can be sealed.
I have thought of doing spheres, or at least round baffles, for their next incarnation, not just to make a decision more difficult for you, I assure you!
Have you tried garden centres for vases?
Andy
Sound of Eggs is good. I find small baffles give a clearer top end. You have probably done lots of reading on this site and other similar ones to discover plenty of reasons why that should be (and plenty of reasons why not, of course). If you build some, offset the driver from centre, and make them of the highest density chipboard you can find (flooring?) - then choose an excuse for the woodchip finish, or maybe expend much time and effort with filler and sandpaper round a sponge. If you are adding a subwoofer, then they can be sealed.
I have thought of doing spheres, or at least round baffles, for their next incarnation, not just to make a decision more difficult for you, I assure you!
Have you tried garden centres for vases?
Andy
Hi Colin,
The speakers on this website have impressive looks.
But it is better to listen, and to think it over, before making any effort to make something alike.
I have built the J-Low Horns e.g. exactly according to the construction plan published on the site. This was not a good idea
(The horn no longer exist because it was sounding horrible to my ears)
See picture here:http://www.lebong-audio.de/greencone/test-j-low.jpg
Jo
good point - the el pipe-o reference was for general info on the sonotubes rather than anything else.
for wood vases, this is the sort of thing I had in mind. try typing 'mango wood vases' into google. the disadvantage is that you seem to have to order them in batches - unusual group buy anyone?
Pic attached of the pair I have. requires the mouth to be cut down and widened, then a baffle attached. by that stage the volume will be bang on 8 litres.
for wood vases, this is the sort of thing I had in mind. try typing 'mango wood vases' into google. the disadvantage is that you seem to have to order them in batches - unusual group buy anyone?
Pic attached of the pair I have. requires the mouth to be cut down and widened, then a baffle attached. by that stage the volume will be bang on 8 litres.
Attachments
While looking for suitable enclosures I'm going to remove the front baffles of a Rogers LS3/5A and mount the Jordans in these - 5 Litres internal volume, birch ply, damped fairly dead cabinets - these might make good mini-monitors - what do you guys think?
Anyway, it will give me a chance to hear the Jordans
John
Anyway, it will give me a chance to hear the Jordans
John
John - You may find the Rogers enclosures have more value intact. If they are in decent condition, check current values on eBay before dismantling.
A 5 litre box isn't too hard to knock together in a weekend, or you could use larger versions of the ceramic enclosures I used for Jordan JXR6s.
A 5 litre box isn't too hard to knock together in a weekend, or you could use larger versions of the ceramic enclosures I used for Jordan JXR6s.
Attachments
Baffles again.
In the hope of spiritual benefit, I put on Tavener's Protecting Veil. Solo 'cello holds a note high up on the top string for quite a long time. I heard something that did not seem to be a 'cello sound at all. Unplugging the two speakers in turn, I realised that the VTL was creating an artefact that the Egg was not.
With neither score nor perfect pitch, I cannot say what frequency the note, and hence the resonance, actually was, but I guess it to be around 1kHz.
Am I making an assumption too far if I attribute this to the wider baffle of the VTL? The VTL has not had corners rounded, so diffraction is at its worst.
Andy
In the hope of spiritual benefit, I put on Tavener's Protecting Veil. Solo 'cello holds a note high up on the top string for quite a long time. I heard something that did not seem to be a 'cello sound at all. Unplugging the two speakers in turn, I realised that the VTL was creating an artefact that the Egg was not.
With neither score nor perfect pitch, I cannot say what frequency the note, and hence the resonance, actually was, but I guess it to be around 1kHz.
Am I making an assumption too far if I attribute this to the wider baffle of the VTL? The VTL has not had corners rounded, so diffraction is at its worst.
Andy
The wider baffle is designed to support the lower midrange (ie baffle step compensation will be required at a lower freq with a wider baffle) so won't add a resonance on its own. And the JX92 is pretty directional so rounding the edges may not make much difference.
It may be a resonance in the chamber of the VTL or in the line. The only way to check is by modifying the stuffing in the upper chamber or at the exit of the line (the only bit you can get at in that design). The Jordan site recommends a piece of felt behind the driver, though I'd go for lightly stuffing the whole chamber with BAF or something similar. (Not long haired wool as you're trying to control resonances in the midrange rather than bass).
The egg design probably has inherently fewer resonance problems due to no parallel surfaces inside.
It may be a resonance in the chamber of the VTL or in the line. The only way to check is by modifying the stuffing in the upper chamber or at the exit of the line (the only bit you can get at in that design). The Jordan site recommends a piece of felt behind the driver, though I'd go for lightly stuffing the whole chamber with BAF or something similar. (Not long haired wool as you're trying to control resonances in the midrange rather than bass).
The egg design probably has inherently fewer resonance problems due to no parallel surfaces inside.
Thanks Colin,
The LS3/5As are in good condition & I'm not going to ruin them in any way - just remove the front baffle held in by 8 screws, cut a new baffle in 3/4 inch marine ply which I have around and fit the Jordans in it - purely as a test of the speakers in a good mini-monitor enclosure.
Still looking at an egg as the final enclosure.
John
The LS3/5As are in good condition & I'm not going to ruin them in any way - just remove the front baffle held in by 8 screws, cut a new baffle in 3/4 inch marine ply which I have around and fit the Jordans in it - purely as a test of the speakers in a good mini-monitor enclosure.
Still looking at an egg as the final enclosure.
John
Colin,
I have only the minimal piece of felt, so can put some of my favourite stuffing (Dressmakers' wadding - my wife's DIY pastime) in the top of the line.
You are right about the Egg and resonance, which is why I thought of turning the VTL through 90 degrees and putting a rounded pod on top to house the drive unit. Supporting the lower midrange does not seem to me to be a valuable compomise.
Shall read the Daline article thoroughly to see whether it provides another excuse to get the jigsaw out!
Andy
I have only the minimal piece of felt, so can put some of my favourite stuffing (Dressmakers' wadding - my wife's DIY pastime) in the top of the line.
You are right about the Egg and resonance, which is why I thought of turning the VTL through 90 degrees and putting a rounded pod on top to house the drive unit. Supporting the lower midrange does not seem to me to be a valuable compomise.
Shall read the Daline article thoroughly to see whether it provides another excuse to get the jigsaw out!
Andy
jkeny said:
John, get those Jordans working!
Once you have them making music, you can start to decide on which of the many - inevitable - compromises you wish to make.
Just beware that if playing them in a small or medium sized room, trying to get the maximum bass - as I did with the TQWP cabinets - may be the worst compomise.
I need to try my eggs without a port to hear whether the transient response improves, and whether that is better than more bass.
If you choose eggs, I can send you my plans.
Andy
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