!!
T
Hi to all.
I have been in full range history for awhile and had lot of fostex FE range and eminence 12lt etc. but bouhgt recently an EMI eliptical driver that I read some years ago when the fullrange driver forum was at its best IMHO. I foun the driver a bit recessed sounding up to the fostex 206e in the horn but less coloured more musical and much quicker. it can also be, because of its 0.6 qts or more, used in an OB and there it sounds very open limitless and again quick, articulate and uncoloured. It has some of the realistic portayal of highs and mids by it small eliptical center made by aluminium but sounds a bit soft in bass. I would like to upgrade it and I am searchin for a solution: the spider is very very soft- I think it has deterioate in all these years and the me,brane is very unrigid also. therefore i applied one very slim coat of dilluted dammar and shellac on it and the stiffening lead to a better integration of mids and highs and also made it quite alive sounding. Comparing it with horns it is still a bit smaller sounding but vocals are more natural and floating. With small acoustic music it strikes a high end sound but with classical it looses against the horn by its recessed bass and lower mids. In your opinion what will be the change to move to a stiffer spider? I aslo crossed it around 9KHz (with sole 0.33mH coil) and left the upper freq to the monacor dt25n tweeter. It is much better, but would like still more stiffening to the bas and lower mids. Do I ask to much from these driver? I did not find any experiences from folk with these speaker on the web albeit they are mentioned as uncoloured and very good sounding drivers (and that is true). I would like to move to Ob from horns but SI will in my opinion be just a step back to 2-way driver with lower posted crossover. I do not want that. I liked the idea of crossover being put up to 7-10KHz and let the tweeter do the highs.
What tweaks (and repairs) do you suggest do make a driver so old sound a bit more up to the date. To make it younger sounding. I will stiffen in future the magnet a bit to the chassis and put some foam back on it (to dampen the backwaves that pertrude to the main cone (it bettered the sound of all fostex drivers and 12lt...) but would not like to put more coats of shellac or dammar to it as it might lower the great resolution it has right now in the mids.
Please suggest your thoughts and solutions.
thank you.
T11
T
Hi to all.
I have been in full range history for awhile and had lot of fostex FE range and eminence 12lt etc. but bouhgt recently an EMI eliptical driver that I read some years ago when the fullrange driver forum was at its best IMHO. I foun the driver a bit recessed sounding up to the fostex 206e in the horn but less coloured more musical and much quicker. it can also be, because of its 0.6 qts or more, used in an OB and there it sounds very open limitless and again quick, articulate and uncoloured. It has some of the realistic portayal of highs and mids by it small eliptical center made by aluminium but sounds a bit soft in bass. I would like to upgrade it and I am searchin for a solution: the spider is very very soft- I think it has deterioate in all these years and the me,brane is very unrigid also. therefore i applied one very slim coat of dilluted dammar and shellac on it and the stiffening lead to a better integration of mids and highs and also made it quite alive sounding. Comparing it with horns it is still a bit smaller sounding but vocals are more natural and floating. With small acoustic music it strikes a high end sound but with classical it looses against the horn by its recessed bass and lower mids. In your opinion what will be the change to move to a stiffer spider? I aslo crossed it around 9KHz (with sole 0.33mH coil) and left the upper freq to the monacor dt25n tweeter. It is much better, but would like still more stiffening to the bas and lower mids. Do I ask to much from these driver? I did not find any experiences from folk with these speaker on the web albeit they are mentioned as uncoloured and very good sounding drivers (and that is true). I would like to move to Ob from horns but SI will in my opinion be just a step back to 2-way driver with lower posted crossover. I do not want that. I liked the idea of crossover being put up to 7-10KHz and let the tweeter do the highs.
What tweaks (and repairs) do you suggest do make a driver so old sound a bit more up to the date. To make it younger sounding. I will stiffen in future the magnet a bit to the chassis and put some foam back on it (to dampen the backwaves that pertrude to the main cone (it bettered the sound of all fostex drivers and 12lt...) but would not like to put more coats of shellac or dammar to it as it might lower the great resolution it has right now in the mids.
Please suggest your thoughts and solutions.
thank you.
T11
?
No experiences with the spider replace? I do not believe that...
Anyway, if anybody is listening there, I tried a kown teick with adding a normal magnet (ceramic) back on the alnico and found out that the resolution went up but maybe the sound got softer too. what usually happens when you add the magnet (especially if the one is of another type)? What happens to Q parameters?
T11
No experiences with the spider replace? I do not believe that...
Anyway, if anybody is listening there, I tried a kown teick with adding a normal magnet (ceramic) back on the alnico and found out that the resolution went up but maybe the sound got softer too. what usually happens when you add the magnet (especially if the one is of another type)? What happens to Q parameters?
T11
a response!!
Similar but different magnet and sorround is..oh, I will take the picture at night and show them. They play good up to 8-9KHz but further I do not think so. Somewhat soft but deep bass. Must try them in some sealed box or aperiodic. I find some potential in them. Will show on the picture what I mean by that. What do you think about yours? I think you have some OB drivers (do not remember or visatones or SI...), I am searching further for some new 10" driver I could make into a coaxial but want that it reaches up to 7-8Khz at least. I foun some interesting sammy drivers...
will post later!
!!
T
Similar but different magnet and sorround is..oh, I will take the picture at night and show them. They play good up to 8-9KHz but further I do not think so. Somewhat soft but deep bass. Must try them in some sealed box or aperiodic. I find some potential in them. Will show on the picture what I mean by that. What do you think about yours? I think you have some OB drivers (do not remember or visatones or SI...), I am searching further for some new 10" driver I could make into a coaxial but want that it reaches up to 7-8Khz at least. I foun some interesting sammy drivers...
will post later!
!!
T
OB
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/enajstine/
I hope you can see them. They are in experimental stage. I have been trying with the 0,33 mH winding but it seems it does not cut enough low. I do not have the response graph for the impedance so do not know at what to cut. If I presume that at 8000Hz it has around 30ohms than it should be around 0.5mH to cut it right. The aluminium does contribute to a peak somewhere in highs and the deep nature of cone reinforce the standing waves from the aluminium middle cone...
What kind of driver do you use now? What would be the step forward from 206E and those EMI? I was looking at altec lansing site for their coaxial with round horn in the middle and was also attracted to the sammi cx10a100 coaxial and me250b50 and adding a good ribbon on the top, me250b40 and finnaly something from PA audio.... do not know but wiould like to try some high Qts and efficiency drivers with dedicated tweeter on the top and high crossover (say over 7000Hz). If i can find a good midrange with it...
!!
T
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/enajstine/
I hope you can see them. They are in experimental stage. I have been trying with the 0,33 mH winding but it seems it does not cut enough low. I do not have the response graph for the impedance so do not know at what to cut. If I presume that at 8000Hz it has around 30ohms than it should be around 0.5mH to cut it right. The aluminium does contribute to a peak somewhere in highs and the deep nature of cone reinforce the standing waves from the aluminium middle cone...
What kind of driver do you use now? What would be the step forward from 206E and those EMI? I was looking at altec lansing site for their coaxial with round horn in the middle and was also attracted to the sammi cx10a100 coaxial and me250b50 and adding a good ribbon on the top, me250b40 and finnaly something from PA audio.... do not know but wiould like to try some high Qts and efficiency drivers with dedicated tweeter on the top and high crossover (say over 7000Hz). If i can find a good midrange with it...
!!
T
Re: OB
Nope... yahoo has been spinning for over an hour -- no pics... why not just attach them to the forum database?
I have quite a few. Modified FE127 or FE126 are my favorites. also have FE108eS & CSS FR125S (modified). Sounds of Music 6.5" (unobtainium & my current OBs don't really fit my room). Visaton B200 go thru fairly regularily but budget hasn't allowed me to hang on to a set.
modified FE108eS, FE167, FE166, FE207, neophone in the queue.
Lots of vintage drivers pass thru.
Depnds on what you want to do... i consider FE126 or FE127 a step up from 206
There is a wealth of quite decent drivers out there (and a lot of drek)
dave
T11 said:
Nope... yahoo has been spinning for over an hour -- no pics... why not just attach them to the forum database?
I have quite a few. Modified FE127 or FE126 are my favorites. also have FE108eS & CSS FR125S (modified). Sounds of Music 6.5" (unobtainium & my current OBs don't really fit my room). Visaton B200 go thru fairly regularily but budget hasn't allowed me to hang on to a set.
modified FE108eS, FE167, FE166, FE207, neophone in the queue.
Lots of vintage drivers pass thru.
Depnds on what you want to do... i consider FE126 or FE127 a step up from 206
There is a wealth of quite decent drivers out there (and a lot of drek)
dave
Re: Re: Re: Re: OB
hehe-in fact it is borrowed from mine........conditionally ;
former YU was extra-multi-cultural entity
'till this look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drek I even didn't know what origin is........besides that I know that word all my life
anyway-nice way to drek own rules
planet10 said:
Always happy when i help expand someone's vocabulary
dave
hehe-in fact it is borrowed from mine........conditionally ;
former YU was extra-multi-cultural entity
'till this look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drek I even didn't know what origin is........besides that I know that word all my life
anyway-nice way to drek own rules
hm...
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/enajstine/#page1
You should see them now. It has square alnico magnet but I put some foam around it as I am in phase of test. It is also attached on some very thin board but have one thicker 1" prepared. I just brought in some decent amp instead of prehistoric one I had from my sister as the one was in repair. Now this midrange is something to talk abot- very very open, quicker and transparent but the mids from the main core should not extend more than up to 8000Hz as they become shouty and to boxy. Bass is firmer and I suppose in the box should be much better. But the midrange... uf it is lovely and not drek at all. Jebemti (my fellow yugoslavian knows what it means right?) they are good- if I just put them by side to fostex they are real and sincere and fostex just hi-fi. Even in horns. I thought about 127 and 126 driver but I want a big driver on the bottom because of the microdynamics and headroom they provide and if they manage midrange well (that is a problem-finding THAT with big drivers) you can obtain electrostatic clarity, visceral highs and broad and deep soundstage. I had 103 and 108 at home, did like them better up to 206 but the sound pressure and vibrancy of the musical bodies is not the same (even with the eminence 12lt as a complemetary subs) compared with big driver on OB and good ribbon on the top. There is not enough air and tension. But maybe the 127 has the edge I am searching for. But then I will end up with 3way box...
regards
T11
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/enajstine/#page1
You should see them now. It has square alnico magnet but I put some foam around it as I am in phase of test. It is also attached on some very thin board but have one thicker 1" prepared. I just brought in some decent amp instead of prehistoric one I had from my sister as the one was in repair. Now this midrange is something to talk abot- very very open, quicker and transparent but the mids from the main core should not extend more than up to 8000Hz as they become shouty and to boxy. Bass is firmer and I suppose in the box should be much better. But the midrange... uf it is lovely and not drek at all. Jebemti (my fellow yugoslavian knows what it means right?) they are good- if I just put them by side to fostex they are real and sincere and fostex just hi-fi. Even in horns. I thought about 127 and 126 driver but I want a big driver on the bottom because of the microdynamics and headroom they provide and if they manage midrange well (that is a problem-finding THAT with big drivers) you can obtain electrostatic clarity, visceral highs and broad and deep soundstage. I had 103 and 108 at home, did like them better up to 206 but the sound pressure and vibrancy of the musical bodies is not the same (even with the eminence 12lt as a complemetary subs) compared with big driver on OB and good ribbon on the top. There is not enough air and tension. But maybe the 127 has the edge I am searching for. But then I will end up with 3way box...
regards
T11
Re: hm...
Eminence Alpha 15 are good enough for MJK in OB with Lowthers as main spks.
drek,these alpha 15 are in Belgrade 45Euros ! dirt cheap,even for Serbian wallet ........you can always try Eminence APT80 as helper tweet......it's good enough for Zu Druid....
another tip for my fellow Slovenian :
try to find ancient Iskra Garrard spks ; that was crummy gramo-amp (hehe to us known as gramopojacalo) ,made OEM by Unitra for Iskra....
but drivers were pure gold.........8" ,ceramic magnet,10W/4E , rubber surround and-with whizzer..........with little efforts you can put phase plug in there and have one hell of a driver,even if it's used in origigi boxes as bass.
PLUS- two eliptic drivers,one x-over-ed as lower tweet and one as upper tweet.....both have closed baskets.......
all drivers are origigi Iskra.........
besides......yry to look in old places for Iskra made spk columns for PA (churches,halls ,waiting rooms ..........) they're full of smaller and bigger eliptic alnico Iskras.....
sorry for pic-that was tired cam
T11 said:
Eminence Alpha 15 are good enough for MJK in OB with Lowthers as main spks.
drek,these alpha 15 are in Belgrade 45Euros ! dirt cheap,even for Serbian wallet ........you can always try Eminence APT80 as helper tweet......it's good enough for Zu Druid....
another tip for my fellow Slovenian :
try to find ancient Iskra Garrard spks ; that was crummy gramo-amp (hehe to us known as gramopojacalo) ,made OEM by Unitra for Iskra....
but drivers were pure gold.........8" ,ceramic magnet,10W/4E , rubber surround and-with whizzer..........with little efforts you can put phase plug in there and have one hell of a driver,even if it's used in origigi boxes as bass.
PLUS- two eliptic drivers,one x-over-ed as lower tweet and one as upper tweet.....both have closed baskets.......
all drivers are origigi Iskra.........
besides......yry to look in old places for Iskra made spk columns for PA (churches,halls ,waiting rooms ..........) they're full of smaller and bigger eliptic alnico Iskras.....
sorry for pic-that was tired cam
Attachments
bumerang
I am relentless.
I have a last question than will move to work on those drivers. Do I calculate the low pass filter (just coil so it is 1st order) on the nominal impedance of the driver or should I take into account the rising impedance curve on the high frequencies and calculate the cut on some 33ohms instead of 15ohm (that is the nominal impedance of these drivers but the impedance does step up as with all other speakers). I think that once someone told me that I should first use some kind of zobel filter to flatten the impedance curve and only then I should properly filter the drivers response where I want to. Is this true?
Finnaly: Did anyone tried or heardd or had heard something positive about PA audio drivers from commonsense audio (they sell also the "famous" nirvana drivers).
That is all.
for now.
I think.
!!
T
I am relentless.
I have a last question than will move to work on those drivers. Do I calculate the low pass filter (just coil so it is 1st order) on the nominal impedance of the driver or should I take into account the rising impedance curve on the high frequencies and calculate the cut on some 33ohms instead of 15ohm (that is the nominal impedance of these drivers but the impedance does step up as with all other speakers). I think that once someone told me that I should first use some kind of zobel filter to flatten the impedance curve and only then I should properly filter the drivers response where I want to. Is this true?
Finnaly: Did anyone tried or heardd or had heard something positive about PA audio drivers from commonsense audio (they sell also the "famous" nirvana drivers).
That is all.
for now.
I think.
!!
T
!
ljepo pozdravljen prijatelju glazbe
It is true - Iskra had some good drivers, never heard about those, I am too young to know all the gems from the past. I tried 0.6mH on these EMI and it is better. they have a bit to recessed midbass on OB, I will try to put some felt on the back of the basket to dampen more the cone. I just met a girl, she has parents from ex-YU and she sent me some music that she likes (we just met over the net and met for the first time two days ago, she has all the charm the people from YU posses and the smarts of course
We were just talking about some feelings from childhood and I remembered I had a friend that moved to the Serbia with his father. He played harmonika and he played one song specially for me. It made me very sad but also uplifted. I did not know the name of the song. I could not even whistle it but it was firm in my head somewhere.
Then she sent me a piece of music. It was the song I had in my head and heart for all these years. It is played by Indeks. the song is called : bacila je sve niz rijeku.
That is life.
or love...will see.
T11
ljepo pozdravljen prijatelju glazbe
It is true - Iskra had some good drivers, never heard about those, I am too young to know all the gems from the past. I tried 0.6mH on these EMI and it is better. they have a bit to recessed midbass on OB, I will try to put some felt on the back of the basket to dampen more the cone. I just met a girl, she has parents from ex-YU and she sent me some music that she likes (we just met over the net and met for the first time two days ago, she has all the charm the people from YU posses and the smarts of course
We were just talking about some feelings from childhood and I remembered I had a friend that moved to the Serbia with his father. He played harmonika and he played one song specially for me. It made me very sad but also uplifted. I did not know the name of the song. I could not even whistle it but it was firm in my head somewhere.
Then she sent me a piece of music. It was the song I had in my head and heart for all these years. It is played by Indeks. the song is called : bacila je sve niz rijeku.
That is life.
or love...will see.
T11
Re: !
hehe.......I hope that will be love
yup,"bacila je sve niz rijeku"....old band from Sarajevo,with all soul one band from that town can have...........one of my faves .
regarding old drivers ,have you see
http://www.lampizator.eu/index.html
scroll down to loudspks,click it and start looking backwards
regarding your EMI......I didn't wrote anything yet about intended mods.but-I advice you to not touch anything ,except if you find some trick to slightly (and I mean really slightly) stiff the cone (dammar or whatever) and maybe some magic goo for surround (black tacky stuff)
your move with applying dammar and shellac on spider leads (I mean) to lowering bass ,not augmenting mids and highs
for instance-Lowthers have spider made from compressed sponge (hehe-same material as you can see on surrounds ,but english werb for it just slip my mind in this moment)........
there you can see that every driver with decent highs must be easy to move.......soft in other words
did I understood well that you played with Eminence Beta 12LT?
impressions?
and - I'm curious -how much is it in Slo.........here is in range of 50E / piece
edit.....hehe-sponge surround......known better as foam surround (missing english word )......bit in lowther spiders somewhat softer than you can see usually on surrounds
btw-did you tried EMI witout choke, with helper tweet crossed very high (15 to 20 K with just cap in line) ?
T11 said:
hehe.......I hope that will be love
yup,"bacila je sve niz rijeku"....old band from Sarajevo,with all soul one band from that town can have...........one of my faves .
regarding old drivers ,have you see
http://www.lampizator.eu/index.html
scroll down to loudspks,click it and start looking backwards
regarding your EMI......I didn't wrote anything yet about intended mods.but-I advice you to not touch anything ,except if you find some trick to slightly (and I mean really slightly) stiff the cone (dammar or whatever) and maybe some magic goo for surround (black tacky stuff)
your move with applying dammar and shellac on spider leads (I mean) to lowering bass ,not augmenting mids and highs
for instance-Lowthers have spider made from compressed sponge (hehe-same material as you can see on surrounds ,but english werb for it just slip my mind in this moment)........
there you can see that every driver with decent highs must be easy to move.......soft in other words
did I understood well that you played with Eminence Beta 12LT?
impressions?
and - I'm curious -how much is it in Slo.........here is in range of 50E / piece
edit.....hehe-sponge surround......known better as foam surround (missing english word )......bit in lowther spiders somewhat softer than you can see usually on surrounds
btw-did you tried EMI witout choke, with helper tweet crossed very high (15 to 20 K with just cap in line) ?
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