so i am planning to do a speakers project and i'd be happy if i could get any advice. right now i'm thinking of the fe108es and the 168es, though the 168 are maximum money i want to spend 
- both in the recommended enclosures.
so the amp to drive those is Nelsons F2(clone). the kind of music i listen most to is stuff like pink floyd, deep purple ...- so rock, (sometimes) classics, dum'n base a little less, techno sometimes (but far less than classics) - so nearly everything, no big help i guess
so i'd be happy if anyone could help me decide a) if its worth to go for the 168 (its ~+60Euros for one compared to the 108) or if anyone got another baby in that price range (max 160Euros) for driver.
and i forgot, it should be a horn >= 90db
thanks,
Patrick
PS: sorry if post is similar to some other but i couldn't find the right question/answer for me.
- both in the recommended enclosures.so the amp to drive those is Nelsons F2(clone). the kind of music i listen most to is stuff like pink floyd, deep purple ...- so rock, (sometimes) classics, dum'n base a little less, techno sometimes (but far less than classics) - so nearly everything, no big help i guess
so i'd be happy if anyone could help me decide a) if its worth to go for the 168 (its ~+60Euros for one compared to the 108) or if anyone got another baby in that price range (max 160Euros) for driver.
and i forgot, it should be a horn >= 90db
thanks,
Patrick
PS: sorry if post is similar to some other but i couldn't find the right question/answer for me.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
Look at the BIB enclosures for Fostex. I have the dims for the 108 too. I can post them for you if you like.
Godzilla
Look at the BIB enclosures for Fostex. I have the dims for the 108 too. I can post them for you if you like.
Godzilla
Well, I can see that he beat me to the punch, but anyways:
From the range of drivers you mentioned, it would appear that either your mind's not quite made up, or you happen to have drivers in hand.
The first thing that comes to mind that would deliver killer sound for the bucks and be easy build would be from Godzilla's BIB series*.
I've built / heard the 108Sigma in several different enclosures, including the BIB; and as stellar a performer as it is from around 300 or so & up, it has limitations in max SPL and bass extension that no enclosure can overcome without paying a price.
If you're not restricted to drivers you already have in hand, I'd suggest starting with either the FE126E or FE166E in a BIB. Depending on where you stand on the tweakage issue, you might want to consider the cone & phase plug mods by Planet10. I don't think I'm alone in personally experiencing the big improvements they can make to the system.
For a more advanced builder, the Fostex BLH for FE166ESR looks to be a great, if not quick project ( 41 pieces per box !) If even 90% of the performance of the FE206ESR BLH , this should satisfy most requirements (except arguably WAF)
*BTW, as much as we need to thank Godzilla for his work on modeling and refining this design to the an expanding family, kudos must go out the late Terry Cain for his earlier work, and offering it to the DIY community. I first met TC, and heard a pair of the FE164 BIB at the VSAC 2001 show - even with only 1W or so of SET (George Wright 45's), these things rocked.
From the range of drivers you mentioned, it would appear that either your mind's not quite made up, or you happen to have drivers in hand.
The first thing that comes to mind that would deliver killer sound for the bucks and be easy build would be from Godzilla's BIB series*.
I've built / heard the 108Sigma in several different enclosures, including the BIB; and as stellar a performer as it is from around 300 or so & up, it has limitations in max SPL and bass extension that no enclosure can overcome without paying a price.
If you're not restricted to drivers you already have in hand, I'd suggest starting with either the FE126E or FE166E in a BIB. Depending on where you stand on the tweakage issue, you might want to consider the cone & phase plug mods by Planet10. I don't think I'm alone in personally experiencing the big improvements they can make to the system.
For a more advanced builder, the Fostex BLH for FE166ESR looks to be a great, if not quick project ( 41 pieces per box !) If even 90% of the performance of the FE206ESR BLH , this should satisfy most requirements (except arguably WAF)
*BTW, as much as we need to thank Godzilla for his work on modeling and refining this design to the an expanding family, kudos must go out the late Terry Cain for his earlier work, and offering it to the DIY community. I first met TC, and heard a pair of the FE164 BIB at the VSAC 2001 show - even with only 1W or so of SET (George Wright 45's), these things rocked.
hmm i'm gonna think bout the zilla's ...
by the way, i got over the fe206e page, they cost less and seem to give good specs (at least the frequency response diagram). is there anything wrong with those in the recommended enclosure? (better worse than 108 es?)
thanks again
PS: i dont already have the drives, so maybe go for another driver?
btw the only limiting factor is money (as told ~ 350 max). i even got a second brain from my friend rodeodave - who did speakers himself - which i can rent when in need
by the way, i got over the fe206e page, they cost less and seem to give good specs (at least the frequency response diagram). is there anything wrong with those in the recommended enclosure? (better worse than 108 es?)
thanks again
PS: i dont already have the drives, so maybe go for another driver?
btw the only limiting factor is money (as told ~ 350 max). i even got a second brain from my friend rodeodave - who did speakers himself - which i can rent when in need
Well of course any fan of Fostex drivers would probably opine there's nothing wrong with any of the FE series in the right boxes, aside from the physical volume required (and for the ESR series, the cash involved)
I don't think Hoffman's Iron Law has been repealed yet.
Pick any 2 of the following:
1) deep bass response
2) sensitivity
3) small enclosure
Scott, et al - has anyone amassed enough data to base driver/enclosure recommendations on room dimensions? I'd wager than more than one DIYer has found their room limitations the hard way - there are some issues that simply can't be solved solely by the application of generous budget.
I don't think Hoffman's Iron Law has been repealed yet.
Pick any 2 of the following:
1) deep bass response
2) sensitivity
3) small enclosure
Scott, et al - has anyone amassed enough data to base driver/enclosure recommendations on room dimensions? I'd wager than more than one DIYer has found their room limitations the hard way - there are some issues that simply can't be solved solely by the application of generous budget.
well i dont really have to get fostex. a friend of mine got the 108es (driven by zenlite) and i think they sound great with current source, so that's the first driver that came to my head.
another question is -if i got for fostex - if the 108es is enough to make my room loud enough=] (its ~25 qm2) with the f2 which i think gives about 5W. (don't punch me for that question, at least not hard, but a certain level is needed.)
and btw. the physical size doesnt matter i got plenty of room. - just maybe that my girl wont be happy
but i think i'll go for sensitivity - hmm... not easy to decide ....
humm 166esr seems to get expensive
sorry for asking maybe stupid questions, but i'm new to diy speakers :| though i know little about their physics from studying
another question is -if i got for fostex - if the 108es is enough to make my room loud enough=] (its ~25 qm2) with the f2 which i think gives about 5W. (don't punch me for that question, at least not hard, but a certain level is needed.)
and btw. the physical size doesnt matter i got plenty of room. - just maybe that my girl wont be happy
but i think i'll go for sensitivity - hmm... not easy to decide ....
humm 166esr seems to get expensive
sorry for asking maybe stupid questions, but i'm new to diy speakers :| though i know little about their physics from studying
It has more gain & a generally flatter response in the LF. Better looking & a little more compact too. I think I know why Fostex have engineered a huge dip into the regular 206 box -probably there to counter the expected room vertical-mode. I've revised my views a little about the regular 206 box -it's better than I originally gave it credit for. Ditto the reduced 166 box. But the 208 cabinet is still superior. Plus you can upgrade to the ESigma drivers at a later date.
I made some suggestions about room dimensions over on the World Designs site. They're only approximate guesstimates though as rooms are always a pain. Rough room sizes I'd probably suggest for horns would be:
8in or larger unit: 15ft x 20ft room upwards
6 1/2in unit: 10ft x 15ft room
4 - 4 1/2in unit: just about anything up to about the above.
These are arbitary though & will depend on the rest of the system the nature of the room, and the type of 'horn' or some such variation used. For example, the Harveys don't like small rooms at all, despite the small driver, but give them a reasonable amount of breathing space (about 10ft x 15ft) and they sing. Equally, I've heard some 8in drivers in small horns that would do as well as a smaller one even in a box-room so long as it's matched well & you don't go crazy with the volume-knob.
I made some suggestions about room dimensions over on the World Designs site. They're only approximate guesstimates though as rooms are always a pain. Rough room sizes I'd probably suggest for horns would be:
8in or larger unit: 15ft x 20ft room upwards
6 1/2in unit: 10ft x 15ft room
4 - 4 1/2in unit: just about anything up to about the above.
These are arbitary though & will depend on the rest of the system the nature of the room, and the type of 'horn' or some such variation used. For example, the Harveys don't like small rooms at all, despite the small driver, but give them a reasonable amount of breathing space (about 10ft x 15ft) and they sing. Equally, I've heard some 8in drivers in small horns that would do as well as a smaller one even in a box-room so long as it's matched well & you don't go crazy with the volume-knob.
Get what you can!
Patrick,
I don't know where to buy wood in Austria - but if things over there are like they are in Pimpfenland, Bauhaus and that kind of shops
a) only cut rectangular, and
b) don't like crazy angles
The Nagaoka style boxes are a very good idea, and you'll have lots of fun building a pair.
And @ Scott : thanks for giving us the tip about PJ - worth listening to, she really is. I still love Sandy Denny and Joan Baez, though...OK, I'm an old geezer.
Pit
Patrick,
I don't know where to buy wood in Austria - but if things over there are like they are in Pimpfenland, Bauhaus and that kind of shops
a) only cut rectangular, and
b) don't like crazy angles
The Nagaoka style boxes are a very good idea, and you'll have lots of fun building a pair.
And @ Scott : thanks for giving us the tip about PJ - worth listening to, she really is. I still love Sandy Denny and Joan Baez, though...OK, I'm an old geezer.
Pit
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