This is my first time posting though I have been reading for a while, so naturally this is a question. After I have a few things built and have something to contribute I plan on posting more often.
I am planning on building a BIB (waiting for plywood to straighten before glueing) and a Spawn of Frugal horn and am wondering from people who have experience with both which driver they prefer, Fostex 126e or 127e to use with those two enclosures.
I currently listen to Cain and Cain noogi's but am having an urge to build a few enclosures for some experimenting.
Any help is appreciated.
Ed Robinson
I am planning on building a BIB (waiting for plywood to straighten before glueing) and a Spawn of Frugal horn and am wondering from people who have experience with both which driver they prefer, Fostex 126e or 127e to use with those two enclosures.
I currently listen to Cain and Cain noogi's but am having an urge to build a few enclosures for some experimenting.
Any help is appreciated.
Ed Robinson
To add a little more info, I listen to most kinds of music (rock, hip hop, classical, country, just no jazz) and am using a 25watt "gainclone" amp that a friend made for me and cat5 wire. Even though I listen to hip hop, bass is not the end all by any means. I really prefer vocals over all other sounds, though I would like more bottom end then the noogis produce 🙂
I'd go for the 126 -it's a remarkable unit. If possible, get the modified drivers from Dave of www.planet10-hifi.com The differences between tweaked and standard units are not subtle (and measurable -no voodoo here).
Scottmoose said:
well Scott, maybe a little "west coast mountain majik" , but as you say, definitely not imaginary or subtle.
Both drivers are excellent... i couldn't pick one over the other on sonics... with the horns you have mentioned the FE126 probably has the edge.
And speaking of BIBs... i just finished a set of drawings for my twist on an FE126/FE127 BIB.
It is inverted, has a more optimal Zd than the published design, and thru the use of some specific foot-pods, accomodates a Karlson slot... will it work. Don't know, but i'll throw it out for someone to try (many things ahead of it in our queue)
It has been dubbed the 52nd Anniversery Special Edition iBIBk FE12xe. The actual curves for the Karlson slot are an aproximation -- you are on your own there.
dave
And speaking of BIBs... i just finished a set of drawings for my twist on an FE126/FE127 BIB.
It is inverted, has a more optimal Zd than the published design, and thru the use of some specific foot-pods, accomodates a Karlson slot... will it work. Don't know, but i'll throw it out for someone to try (many things ahead of it in our queue)
It has been dubbed the 52nd Anniversery Special Edition iBIBk FE12xe. The actual curves for the Karlson slot are an aproximation -- you are on your own there.
dave
Dave:
I've built the BIB for the FE126E and they're sitting in my living room now. I was very interested to see the wider baffle on the iBIBk design; this is absolutely necessary.
I also think that it was a good idea to invert the BIB and direct the mouth at the back wall. I suspect that this is also part of the problem for the FE126E BIB. I can't remember whether it was you, Scottmoose, or someone else in another thread who noted that the FE126E BIB may not load room well. Its relatively short for a BIB and far from the ceiling. I've just started playing with the BIB "upside down" and it does seem to be better.
[The other benefit is that I can model it with King's MathCad model and don't have to wait for any enhancements!]
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I'm curious about the Karlson slot. Why add this over a simple vent/opening?
I've built the BIB for the FE126E and they're sitting in my living room now. I was very interested to see the wider baffle on the iBIBk design; this is absolutely necessary.
I also think that it was a good idea to invert the BIB and direct the mouth at the back wall. I suspect that this is also part of the problem for the FE126E BIB. I can't remember whether it was you, Scottmoose, or someone else in another thread who noted that the FE126E BIB may not load room well. Its relatively short for a BIB and far from the ceiling. I've just started playing with the BIB "upside down" and it does seem to be better.
[The other benefit is that I can model it with King's MathCad model and don't have to wait for any enhancements!]
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I'm curious about the Karlson slot. Why add this over a simple vent/opening?
holdent said:
Unless Dave beats me to the punch, the answer is "theoretically, it should smooth out some of the ripple"
While we're on the subject of drivers in this ever-growing family of enclosures, does anyone have anecdotes to share regarding the FF series? I'm thinking the FF125K FF165K might be well suited for the metal fan & HT crowd . On paper, they certainly look to eliminate the need for tweeters.
BTW, Dave - look forward to a call from Mr Jobs' legal department on the infringement of use of the "i-" trademark.
😉
Sorry - I didn't mean to re-direct the thread.
Getting back to the topic: I really like my 126s but haven't be able to compare them to the 127s. I think you need to pick the enclosure first and then use the right driver. FE126Es for BLHs, FE127Es for BRs and MLTLs and so on (but it isn't quite that definitive).
One problem I have with the FE126E is with the response peak around 6700 Hz - it needs to be tamed. In retrospect I should've started with the modded drivers Dave sells at planet10-hifi.com.
Getting back to the topic: I really like my 126s but haven't be able to compare them to the 127s. I think you need to pick the enclosure first and then use the right driver. FE126Es for BLHs, FE127Es for BRs and MLTLs and so on (but it isn't quite that definitive).
One problem I have with the FE126E is with the response peak around 6700 Hz - it needs to be tamed. In retrospect I should've started with the modded drivers Dave sells at planet10-hifi.com.
holdent said:
Some of the newer BVR (bigass vent/reflex) family certainly appear to model as much more tolerant of driver's parameters than traditional or even recent DIY BLH designs. It can really come down to driver/cabinet (mis)-matching as tone control.
Well, I don't want to speak for Dave's evolving business model, but it might be worth looking into an exchange program.
chrisb said:
I am very interested if my supposition turns out headed in the right direction. I could hear the ripple in DaveCan's BIBs, and althou i didn't find it a deal killer, i prefer the smoother response of the Fonken Frugel-Horn, or A126. No denying their ability to rock -- and that with an FE108eS.
dave
Dave Cigna said:
That would work too i think. Maybe even better. By extending the back down to the floor, you could get away with the single point on the front.
dave
The idea excites me. The slot(s) serve to de-Q the resonances. Hopefully it affects the higher harmonics more than the fundamental 1/4 wave mode, which we want to keep. Haven't come to a conclusion about that. And then the improved Zd...
The whole thing would need to be longer than MJK's worksheets suggest; they don't include this sort of variation, so we're back in the dark - or at least the light isn't quite as bright.
Driver height is just about right with the 126/127...
-- Dave
p.s. Those feet are lovely. I wanted to mention that. 😎
The whole thing would need to be longer than MJK's worksheets suggest; they don't include this sort of variation, so we're back in the dark - or at least the light isn't quite as bright.
Driver height is just about right with the 126/127...
-- Dave
p.s. Those feet are lovely. I wanted to mention that. 😎
Dave Cigna said:
Now that i just ordered 10 more sets here is the URL to those feet.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=249-720&CFID=503165&CFTOKEN=98941557
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Note that if you only use 3 feet per speaker, you end up with a spare foot out of each box. Each foot comes with a goldy pointed set of points and a gentle rubber set. The hardware is a bit oddball but that means an extra set of feet for an amp or something.
dave
Dave,
I missed the iBIK variation. I'll be the guinea pig and whip up a pair of those next week for my 127's in need of a home change from the basic reference MLTL.
How about someone whipping up dimensions for the sleeper little Adire AV3? I'll do up a set of those too which should make a really mini BIB.
I missed the iBIK variation. I'll be the guinea pig and whip up a pair of those next week for my 127's in need of a home change from the basic reference MLTL.
How about someone whipping up dimensions for the sleeper little Adire AV3? I'll do up a set of those too which should make a really mini BIB.
Thanks everybody. Looks like the fe126e is the driver for me.
My plan on enclosures is to make both of them on the cheap and then when I find my preference, make the prefered enclosure out of solid maple or birch plywood. Not sure yet, there is a lumber yard in my area that sells maple for $2.00 per board foot while birch plywood is around $60.00 per sheet around here. I prefer solid wood but plywood is easier to work with. I can take a long time to decide at times, but luckily drivers take a while to break in 🙂
My BIB should be done next weekend and I am ordering drivers soon and then I will experiment on how close to the ceililng sounds best so I know how long of a false bottom to make if the BIB is the better route to go for us.
It will be hard to listen to them subjectivly. The double horn looks so great while the BIB uses so much less wood which will make it less expensive. Pros and cons as allways.
Thanks again everybody.
My plan on enclosures is to make both of them on the cheap and then when I find my preference, make the prefered enclosure out of solid maple or birch plywood. Not sure yet, there is a lumber yard in my area that sells maple for $2.00 per board foot while birch plywood is around $60.00 per sheet around here. I prefer solid wood but plywood is easier to work with. I can take a long time to decide at times, but luckily drivers take a while to break in 🙂
My BIB should be done next weekend and I am ordering drivers soon and then I will experiment on how close to the ceililng sounds best so I know how long of a false bottom to make if the BIB is the better route to go for us.
It will be hard to listen to them subjectivly. The double horn looks so great while the BIB uses so much less wood which will make it less expensive. Pros and cons as allways.
Thanks again everybody.
planet10 said:
I don't understand this ripple sound... When I built my BIB's it was my first go at making a set of speakers. I saw TC's BIB for the 108 and thought yes it should fire at the floor. The sound in my room especially now that there are some hours on the 108's is really quite nice to these ears, but I could easily live with the Frugals or A126 with the 108 driver at the expense of a small decrease in the low end. They are all good designs with the BIB being easier on the woodworking skills.. Dave🙂
DaveCan said:
Dave,
All speakers compromise somewhere. To get the prodigious bass that the BIBs have, you have to live with a bit more ripple in the low frequencies... this exibits itself as a not quite so smooth upper bass lower midrange. The horns suffer somewhat from it as well, but give up some bass to be smoother. Maximum smoothness comes from a sealed or aperiodic box with a very "smooth" shape (ie an egg qualifies)
dave
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