audio nirvana super 8 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th December 2006, 07:39 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default audio nirvana super 8

Hi-newbee here
I wanted to dip my toes in the single driver and SET ocean so I bought some super 8s and built the enclosure that came with the drivers. Horrible shreiks resulted (first from the speakers-then from me). Took a step back and built a TL design of Martin King.. Better, but not good. I am using a Rotel SS amp so I decided to increase the output impedence ala Nelson Pass by adding a parralel resistor to the amp output. Better still but still not good. My questions are:
1. Has anybody had positive experience with Audio Nirvana drivers?
2. I am surprised at the noticable effect of amp output impedence on the sound. Is it possible that "full range drivers" require a low power class A amp in order to sound OK?
3. Am I hopelessly lost without some way to measure the TS parameters? If so, could somebody recommend a suitable low cost way to do measurements?( If I had significant money, I would buy somebodys system and be done with it).
Thanks in advance and have a happy new year.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2006, 08:15 PM   #2
MJK is offline MJK  United States
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Clifton Park, NY
Use a BSC circuit, that will help significantly. You can size the circuit using the simple Excel worksheet that can be found under my General Speaker Related Articles page. Tweak the parallel resistor value by ear (+/- 1 or 2 ohms) to fine tune. I am using a Rotel RB-1080 200 W amp to power my Lowther designs and it works very well. I would try the circuit before buying a new amp.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2006, 11:46 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
What Martin said.

Going a little further, there's not much wrong with the AN drivers: they're not as good as the Fostex units, but they're not half bad either, especially for the money. Your problems are likely caused by four separate factors.

Firstly, they're a very low Q unit. A low Q driver has an exceptionally powerful magnet, and a very light cone, so it moves faster than a scalded whippet, which is great. However, you can over-damp it with an amplifier with a high damping factor (causing the bass to vanish). That's why you found noticable sonic differences when you adjusted the output impedence with the series resistor. Low DF amps are the 'natural' match, but are not an automatic requirement, as you found -adding some series resistance to the driver allows you to adjust the damping applied, and will bring some of the bass back up. That's what Martin does: so do I and lots of other people (though I have valves too for horns).

Which brings us to the second issue of baffle-step. As if over-damping didn't clobber the bass badly enough, this raises its head, just to finish you off. Martin has gone into this in great detail in his different articles which I won't bother to repeat here. Suffice to say, the point at which it occurs is determined by the external width of the baffle. A BSC circuit will negate this problem, bringing everything above this point into line with the LF.

Thirdly, the AN Super 8 in particular has a very rapidly rising response indeed. From about 700Hz upward, it goes reaching for the skies. At 15KHz, looking at the rather unclear graph on their site, it's about 15db louder than it is at 700Hz. You're either going to need to listen a fair-way off axis, or a notch-filter to get that down to reasonable levels.

Final point to consider is that of the driver / cabinet combination. Martin's MLTL design is superb. However, he intended it for the Lowther drivers, which according to his measurements have an average Vas of about 45 litres, give or take. It also works with the Fostex FE206/7E units, which have a Vas of about 55 litres. The Super 8, according to the published specs., has a Vas of 95 litres. So despite having a similar Q, this is not really a drop-in replacement for the Fostex or Lowther units -it will need a fair bit more cabinet volume in order to provide the same level of LF response.
__________________
Community sites www.frugal-horn.com http://frugal-phile.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2007, 12:31 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Harderror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Washington DC
Well Scott, I figure this is the appropriate thread to talk about this for a change.
I finished the prototype that you and I have been discussing. All I can say is (duyuyuygoogoogaagaa). Ok, seriously. The ANS8 is really VERY good. The horn is truly a spectacullar design. Huge but spectacular. It sort of sticks out into the livingroom. 3 feet of space in to the room that is! Completely worth the imposition however.
A few comments on the ANS8

1. I find this driver (in a proper enclosure) to sound quite a bit better than the 206. I really am glad I took the chance on it, seeing that it cost more than the 206. The mids are warm and concise, the highs are detailed and smooth, the bass I am measuring in room is 35 Hz usable. I am running it off of 6 watts and am very pleased. I would rarely listen at top levels but it is really quite capable of making ones ears bleed at 5 watts.

2. I find this driver requires proper speaker cabling. It is more noticable than on any of the fostex drivers that I use including the 126, 167, 206. I believe this is due to the amazing usable range on the high end, as well as, its ability to go down to bedrock in the bass. There really is NO tweeter required with this driver.

3. This is going to sound wierd but the rising response seems to be A Godsend. Let me tell you why. In room, with most of my other drivers, the hf response is no good if not completely gone off axis. This presents a problem if others are here listening with me. Unless of course I used a super tweeter, which seems to clear up most of the problems. Now, I don't mind listening off axis as the sweet spot is still sweet, it is just much wider. As you see this makes the sweet spot or at least the listenable area for the speaker much less pinpoint which in turn makes the speaker much more enjoyable to others that might be sitting next to me or close by.

4. This is completely and utterly subjective but, this driver seems much more balanced. The 206 tends to sound a bit shreaky or shouty or whatever you want to call it, which only gets worse as it grows louder. Classical music really demonstrates this well. The ANS8 on the other hand sounds much more balanced and if this makes any sense, balanced in it's articulation and assembly of frequency groups.

All of that said. One thought on other's experiences with this driver. I believe the FS of this driver to be 37 Hz. Unlike the Fostex and the Lowther. I cannot say this for certain until I break them in. I will measure them again at that point and post my findings. Now, why is this important? Well, others have placed this driver in horns designed for the afformentioned drivers. These horn's flare constants are usually 45-55 Hz. In my experience with simulating this driver, it really does require a horn thats flare constant is 37 Hz. To do otherwise seems to rob this driver of it's ability to sing. Just my two cents.

One other note. I have noticed the mid-highs to be a touch papery. This has reduced noticably during their break in and I feel that it will most likely disappear as the cones break in. Not too important a thought but one I thought worth mentioning.

This may sound a bit odd as well, but, I feel that they sound nearly as good as the 208 Sigma. Not as good mind you but in the ball park. More balanced is what comes to mind but not quite as articulate or clean. Granted, I have only listened to the 208 a couple of times.

Tom
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2007, 01:08 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Ah. Horns. Bigger is better.

I've heard the Standard 8s -not bad, not as good as the 206, but I wasn't complaining. I quite like the aesthetics of the heavier surround too. Not a bad unit at all -not up to the 206/7, but not far off. Be interesting to hear the Super8s at some point.

FWIW, the 206's I've come across have matched the manufacturers 39Hz Fs claims. Got a long path double horn coming for them with Dave in the next few weeks which should be interesting. I've finally got some time on my hands so I'll be able to run a mathcad sim of your box. Back later.

Scott
__________________
Community sites www.frugal-horn.com http://frugal-phile.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2007, 01:28 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Harderror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Washington DC
Quote:
Originally posted by Scottmoose
Ah. Horns. Bigger is better.

I've heard the Standard 8s -not bad, not as good as the 206, but I wasn't complaining. I quite like the aesthetics of the heavier surround too. Not a bad unit at all -not up to the 206/7, but not far off. Be interesting to hear the Super8s at some point.

FWIW, the 206's I've come across have matched the manufacturers 39Hz Fs claims. Got a long path double horn coming for them with Dave in the next few weeks which should be interesting. I've finally got some time on my hands so I'll be able to run a mathcad sim of your box. Back later.

Scott

Ah, well that being the case, I suppose then what I was getting at was that horns always tend to be designed for 50 Hz etc. I guess size is the reason. A 37 Hz horn is much much bigger than the corresponding 50 Hz horn.

I look forward to seeing the long path double!

As for hearing the ANS8, I would say stop on by but I think I live a few thousand miles from you. (Washinton, D.C.) Ah well.


Tom
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2007, 01:34 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Harderror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Washington DC
Scott, one other tidbit. I am running them about a foot from the wall. No corners. I can only imagine how low they might go in a corner. Yikes!

Tom
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2007, 01:53 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
F10 will drop to roughly 20Hz. Notionally F3 will be about 30Hz. You have mail.
__________________
Community sites www.frugal-horn.com http://frugal-phile.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2007, 09:58 PM   #9
The one and only
 
Nelson Pass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Default Re: audio nirvana super 8

Quote:
Originally posted by cascadeguy
I am using a Rotel SS amp so I decided to increase the output impedence ala Nelson Pass by adding a parralel resistor to the amp output. Better still but still not good.
To increase the output impedance seen by the driver, you would
place the resistor in series with the amplifier output, not
parallel.

My experience with the super 8's has been quite good, although
I haven't had the time to write up my observations.

Knowing the drivers parameters is helpful, but there is no
substitute for trying different things and seeing what you
get.

  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2007, 11:02 PM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Have you tried them in the Klienhorns Nelson?
__________________
Community sites www.frugal-horn.com http://frugal-phile.com/
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
audio nirvana super 10 or super 12 tonytex Full Range 11 4th September 2011 11:55 PM
giant BIB audio nirvana super 8 nirvana Full Range 26 19th July 2010 11:46 AM
Audio Nirvana super 8 nirvana Full Range 10 19th July 2010 11:07 AM
BK-16 and Audio Nirvana Super 6.5 whitelabrat Full Range 6 12th October 2007 02:04 PM
Best enclosure for Audio Nirvana Super 8 art_ok Full Range 2 28th June 2007 07:52 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:39 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2