Hi,
I’ve recently purchased a pair of Visaton B200’s. So far, I don’t like them! I am desperate. Even though these speakers are said to give their best in OB, I have decided to use a 66 L sealed box. Bass is fine, but midrange peak is very annoying. It is very prominent and after that there’s a decline so I feel it needs a tweeter. Sweet spot is very narrow; this driver beams like flashlight.
I’ve managed to flatten the frequency response by trying various filters, mostly playing around values as given on Visaton website. But, then it sounded dull…
Anyway I tried it, couldn’t get this speaker to sound right. ZEN V8 with no feedback, with passive EQ network as described by Mr. Pass, made it sound better, but still not good. How do you guys make this speaker listenable? On some threads I‘ve read that some of you like this speaker a lot, and some use it without any filter?!
As a last option, I’m thinking to add a X-over and a tweeter, making it into a decent two way. Fullrange, it has disappointed me, big time.
Any suggestion?
Vix
I’ve recently purchased a pair of Visaton B200’s. So far, I don’t like them! I am desperate. Even though these speakers are said to give their best in OB, I have decided to use a 66 L sealed box. Bass is fine, but midrange peak is very annoying. It is very prominent and after that there’s a decline so I feel it needs a tweeter. Sweet spot is very narrow; this driver beams like flashlight.
I’ve managed to flatten the frequency response by trying various filters, mostly playing around values as given on Visaton website. But, then it sounded dull…
Anyway I tried it, couldn’t get this speaker to sound right. ZEN V8 with no feedback, with passive EQ network as described by Mr. Pass, made it sound better, but still not good. How do you guys make this speaker listenable? On some threads I‘ve read that some of you like this speaker a lot, and some use it without any filter?!
As a last option, I’m thinking to add a X-over and a tweeter, making it into a decent two way. Fullrange, it has disappointed me, big time.
Any suggestion?
Vix
Get a pair of Dave's phase plugs in them, which will help kill that peak and reduce the beaming, and the drivers onto open baffles. You'll be shocked at the transformation. I'm going to be doing something similar myself shortly. 3 piece baffles, with the side wings attached with piano hinges. Centre panel 9in wide, one side 10in wide, the other 16in wide. Adjust to taste. OB is what they are designed for.
The B200 never pretended to go as high as some of the other FR drivers out there, though it does improve with use -get them to Xmax a few times (try to be in another room, as they go loud!). FR will never do dynamics like multiway, but this will improve them beyond measure. You could always add a small supertweeter later if you still miss the HF.
I'm not surprised the filters from the Visaton site dull the sound -they use far too many components IMO, and the values aren't great. There are better filters you could use, particularly active Eq.
The B200 never pretended to go as high as some of the other FR drivers out there, though it does improve with use -get them to Xmax a few times (try to be in another room, as they go loud!). FR will never do dynamics like multiway, but this will improve them beyond measure. You could always add a small supertweeter later if you still miss the HF.
I'm not surprised the filters from the Visaton site dull the sound -they use far too many components IMO, and the values aren't great. There are better filters you could use, particularly active Eq.
Vix,
Check out this thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=31582.0 .
This will solve your problem ! They don't sound dull with just a LR-filter. And OB, yes.
/Erling
Check out this thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=31582.0 .
This will solve your problem ! They don't sound dull with just a LR-filter. And OB, yes.
/Erling
I installed a set 4 days ago &..
The 1st 2 hrs was not cool...not a hard core peaky like green cones, but........In the next couple hrs they mellowed. I run no filters & do not plan to. no need IMO..just run em hard , they will mellow out, I think Saba green cones have better low mids.. & better life, but the b200's are decent in my book. I could run em without top help, but I have G2's coming for help up top if wanted. I might go active PLLXO on the ribbons with mono's& run 300B only on the b200's with OB active plate amps support under 150hz, they don't seem to go as low as Greeen cones..in fact I am sure of that..strange but easily heard. I think they might be a ruthless type of speaker on sources..I am on the fence on that one..when I run them with SEP Siemens/ Klangfilm mono's they are ruthless to source.. so the 300B is the only way I can get away with most recordings so far..I don't get any ear piercing spikes or anything like that.. I sure wish I had the mony for top end Supravox Alnico's..I am very hesistance on the magnet assembly..could be in my head, but I dought it. basically I am still on the fence about how I really like b200's. I gotta play with em some more... I would definatley get them on OB, I gottem on 24 x36 " baffles & they image like crazy,, beaming is not a issue for me @ 10' away. I'll get 100hrs or so on them before making a decesion on them...
The 1st 2 hrs was not cool...not a hard core peaky like green cones, but........In the next couple hrs they mellowed. I run no filters & do not plan to. no need IMO..just run em hard , they will mellow out, I think Saba green cones have better low mids.. & better life, but the b200's are decent in my book. I could run em without top help, but I have G2's coming for help up top if wanted. I might go active PLLXO on the ribbons with mono's& run 300B only on the b200's with OB active plate amps support under 150hz, they don't seem to go as low as Greeen cones..in fact I am sure of that..strange but easily heard. I think they might be a ruthless type of speaker on sources..I am on the fence on that one..when I run them with SEP Siemens/ Klangfilm mono's they are ruthless to source.. so the 300B is the only way I can get away with most recordings so far..I don't get any ear piercing spikes or anything like that.. I sure wish I had the mony for top end Supravox Alnico's..I am very hesistance on the magnet assembly..could be in my head, but I dought it. basically I am still on the fence about how I really like b200's. I gotta play with em some more... I would definatley get them on OB, I gottem on 24 x36 " baffles & they image like crazy,, beaming is not a issue for me @ 10' away. I'll get 100hrs or so on them before making a decesion on them...
If you aren't already aware of this Vix, Dan Mason is otherwise known as Dr. Dark Star. He's the bloke who pioneered the B200 on open baffle applications (or at least made it popular) with his now gigantic Dark Star thread on audiocircle. The combination of Visaton driver run dipole is now regarded as one of the finest music-makers available, and has even garnered praise from Siegfried Linkwitz. Thrap the drivers for a while, and get them on baffles. Then spend a day or two wondering at the transformation. I heard a version a few months back and thought they were superb.
After re-reading your post.
I am sure, your not getting anything out of what these drivers do best. slam them any any OB of any decent size. The norrow sweet spot you refer to is compete reverse of what I hear this very second. Playing SRV " Live at Montreux" 82-85 , I hear a very, very transparent wide & realistic soundstage. Imaging is pinpoint. ONLY when SRV does some strange dynamic harmonic stuff does it make you twitch, like it should, the real thing does exactly this. not piercing just on that edge when he does it. I am using SE el-84 at the moment & it is dynamic & loud as I can take without pain..the bottom end is going to take time to dial for me. I will take back what I said about lacking life. I think these a just ruthless on source at this point. I did some tests & proved to me this is true. I don't think these are going to add color of much any kind, seem extremely transparent. NO shout, like some Fostex & such, which is dang cool...things are looking way good at this point, must test some more to get my bottom end in order.
I am sure, your not getting anything out of what these drivers do best. slam them any any OB of any decent size. The norrow sweet spot you refer to is compete reverse of what I hear this very second. Playing SRV " Live at Montreux" 82-85 , I hear a very, very transparent wide & realistic soundstage. Imaging is pinpoint. ONLY when SRV does some strange dynamic harmonic stuff does it make you twitch, like it should, the real thing does exactly this. not piercing just on that edge when he does it. I am using SE el-84 at the moment & it is dynamic & loud as I can take without pain..the bottom end is going to take time to dial for me. I will take back what I said about lacking life. I think these a just ruthless on source at this point. I did some tests & proved to me this is true. I don't think these are going to add color of much any kind, seem extremely transparent. NO shout, like some Fostex & such, which is dang cool...things are looking way good at this point, must test some more to get my bottom end in order.
The "DarkStar" itself, a variant of the Linkwitz Orion, simplified, more direct approach, some would say "improved," with five pairs built and sold to "customers," continue to amaze and please, a very refined sound, no box or room resonances, bridging the gap between obstetric anaesthesia, and speaker design.
Make static baffle narrow, and swept back wings, horn loads the rear wave, reduces visual aspect, increasing WAF. Flapping wings results in sonic changes.
Want bass? Try 4X Eminence Delta 15LF, Ripol bass loading, Behringer DEQ/DCX 2496, I use the Rane RPM, high pass the B200 >120Hz, use a very good T amp or tube amp on the Visaton driver, and whatever you can get on the bass modules, and look out. Personally, I think the B200 sounds best with well implemented, battery-driven T amps and NON oversampling digital sources, and is scary-good with the Red Wine Audio Signature 30. Triodes turn the B200/OB thang into the Sonic Planetarium, sonic hologram generator, no schit...
Do not give up on your new drivers, if you do, I will dispose of them for you in an ecologically friendly manner.
Make static baffle narrow, and swept back wings, horn loads the rear wave, reduces visual aspect, increasing WAF. Flapping wings results in sonic changes.
Want bass? Try 4X Eminence Delta 15LF, Ripol bass loading, Behringer DEQ/DCX 2496, I use the Rane RPM, high pass the B200 >120Hz, use a very good T amp or tube amp on the Visaton driver, and whatever you can get on the bass modules, and look out. Personally, I think the B200 sounds best with well implemented, battery-driven T amps and NON oversampling digital sources, and is scary-good with the Red Wine Audio Signature 30. Triodes turn the B200/OB thang into the Sonic Planetarium, sonic hologram generator, no schit...
Do not give up on your new drivers, if you do, I will dispose of them for you in an ecologically friendly manner.
I confess I'd be interested in your personal take on Dark Star (with and without helper woofers) myself Dan. I know you're not claiming it's the definative solution for all situations, but, as I say, it'd be interesting to know. Or is this confidential information, as several have been sold?
In my dipole moments, I'm thinking MK1 Quasar, using 2 B200s in series, one low-passed at ~150Hz the other run FR.
In my dipole moments, I'm thinking MK1 Quasar, using 2 B200s in series, one low-passed at ~150Hz the other run FR.
If you high pass the B200, you can get away with an 18 inch wide baffle. Nanook is the one whom has experimented most with baffle dimensions, and has come to some hard conclusions, perhaps he can opine.
Were I to do it again, it would also be something along the lines of the Quasar, in series, and I did some drawings awhile ago on a Quasaresque MTM model. If you have means to digitally contour, there is no argument, YES, the B200 will do bass, and lots of it, as long as it has the opportunity to take advantage of boundary gain.
I don't like big baffles, I find the visual obtrusiveness outweighs any sonic nirvana-ness. I think if someone had the room, and could stick the big baffle, a B200 in a BIB would get you your "dipole" bass, and then some. I think B200 BIB would be a staggeringly good, nuke-thee-high-end speaker. But I digress.
Were I to do it again, it would also be something along the lines of the Quasar, in series, and I did some drawings awhile ago on a Quasaresque MTM model. If you have means to digitally contour, there is no argument, YES, the B200 will do bass, and lots of it, as long as it has the opportunity to take advantage of boundary gain.
I don't like big baffles, I find the visual obtrusiveness outweighs any sonic nirvana-ness. I think if someone had the room, and could stick the big baffle, a B200 in a BIB would get you your "dipole" bass, and then some. I think B200 BIB would be a staggeringly good, nuke-thee-high-end speaker. But I digress.
Hi,
Thank you very much for the support. I almost sent b200’s to Zen Mod for a proper disposal! 
They are in a box now, and I am going to cook them for some time. After a while I will take them out and they should be ready to sing (honestly, WAF is an issue with OB's, unless I could get some nice wings (for a baffle)
Thank you for pointing to a good thread "Gravity Well Of A DarkStar ". I will read it by the time B200's get cooked.
I was trying Visaton with different amps: Zen V8, (both with and without feedback), SEWA, Sonic Impact T-amp, NAD 3020 and a Gainclone with LM3886.
It sounds best with ZEN V8 with feedback. T-amp sounds very clear and detailed, but there was some HF harshness wich was irritating after a while. SEWA was ok, but not fancy. Other amps did just average. The source is ROTEL RCD-02.
Regards,
Vix
Thank you very much for the support. I almost sent b200’s to Zen Mod for a proper disposal!
They are in a box now, and I am going to cook them for some time. After a while I will take them out and they should be ready to sing (honestly, WAF is an issue with OB's, unless I could get some nice wings (for a baffle)
Thank you for pointing to a good thread "Gravity Well Of A DarkStar ". I will read it by the time B200's get cooked.
I was trying Visaton with different amps: Zen V8, (both with and without feedback), SEWA, Sonic Impact T-amp, NAD 3020 and a Gainclone with LM3886.
It sounds best with ZEN V8 with feedback. T-amp sounds very clear and detailed, but there was some HF harshness wich was irritating after a while. SEWA was ok, but not fancy. Other amps did just average. The source is ROTEL RCD-02.
Regards,
Vix
This might be of interest: http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/roadtour5/roadtour5.html
Louis of Omega is actually not going to be using the B200 (not worked out why), and will instead be using a custom hemp-coned driver for his production OB flat packs. But this gives a you a good idea of what they can be like. Pretty attractive, and you can fold them away like a vertical version of one of those folding, leaved table things. When not in use, they're no more obtrusive than a normal floorstander.
Louis of Omega is actually not going to be using the B200 (not worked out why), and will instead be using a custom hemp-coned driver for his production OB flat packs. But this gives a you a good idea of what they can be like. Pretty attractive, and you can fold them away like a vertical version of one of those folding, leaved table things. When not in use, they're no more obtrusive than a normal floorstander.
That brings up another point: women seem to LOVE the sonic signature of the B200. Little Miss Sensitive Ears tends to be attracted 
and therefore aroused by the sound of her music played thru these things, on an open baffle, so the business end of the "DarkStar" brings many good things to the beholder. It is true: The B200 on open baffle will supercharge one's sex life, assuming one has one, of course. This alone is a very good reason to choose this "load." 
There are several people out there, including Nigel B of West Oz who has been through years of various high-dog audio rigs, and has absolutely settled on his B200 OB set up, powered by his n hers Charlize Tripath amplifiers. High dog sound, budget cost. Everyone who hears Nigel's set up gets their own. See all his comments at the Decware Speaker Forum.
and therefore aroused by the sound of her music played thru these things, on an open baffle, so the business end of the "DarkStar" brings many good things to the beholder. It is true: The B200 on open baffle will supercharge one's sex life, assuming one has one, of course. This alone is a very good reason to choose this "load." There are several people out there, including Nigel B of West Oz who has been through years of various high-dog audio rigs, and has absolutely settled on his B200 OB set up, powered by his n hers Charlize Tripath amplifiers. High dog sound, budget cost. Everyone who hears Nigel's set up gets their own. See all his comments at the Decware Speaker Forum.
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