BIB's, what drivers do you use?

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Hemp Acoustics FR8's. I love the drivers, and the BIB enclosures take them to a whole new level as compared to my previous BR and sealed alignments.

I've been wondering when someone would build a pair with Lowthers. I expect they will work fantastically, and it will sure be a simpler build than most of the Lowther enclosures I've seen (Martin's excluded). Obviously you beat most of us to the BIB by a couple of years, but I think you'll find much more success with one of the sim'd designs.

pj
 
Fe107e

mine looks and sounds great!.

gychang

smallbib.jpg
 
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pjanda1 said:
Hemp Acoustics FR8's. I love the drivers, and the BIB enclosures take them to a whole new level as compared to my previous BR and sealed alignments.

I've been wondering when someone would build a pair with Lowthers. I expect they will work fantastically, and it will sure be a simpler build than most of the Lowther enclosures I've seen (Martin's excluded). Obviously you beat most of us to the BIB by a couple of years, but I think you'll find much more success with one of the sim'd designs.

pj

I am certainly hoping so pjanda.

I think on my next enclosure for the DX-3's I'll mock something up in OSB first and then if they sound good I'll make some nice ones.

I'm leaning toward using 1.25" birch ply and then veneering them with something sharp like figured cherry or quartered white oak.

Rick
 
Scottmoose said:
For my own boxes, I've used FE166E, Monacor SPH-60X and FF165K, all to excellent results. 165 has the best bass. I built a pair for a friend with FF225K as well. BIG sound.


FF225k is a shockingly ignored driver- the bass sensitivity is much better than most full ranges, but people see '96 dB, .3mm xmax' and get shy. Fantastic unit, no rising response (well, no relevant one) and no shout or suckout.
 
Rick J. B. said:


I am certainly hoping so pjanda.

I think on my next enclosure for the DX-3's I'll mock something up in OSB first and then if they sound good I'll make some nice ones.

I'm leaning toward using 1.25" birch ply and then veneering them with something sharp like figured cherry or quartered white oak.

Rick

I'm envious of your cabinets. I could veneer mine, but I know they'd be kind of ugly. I suppose you can't learn to do it well without first trying, but when they're the biggest things in your living room, you hate to do 'em ugly.

I bet the OSB will have some resonances and flex, but it will definitely let you know whether you are getting the bass you are after. Make sure you either use the recommended series resistor size, or order some plenum grade Cat5 (I'd get Belden) of the appropriate length. (One run will do, as you get four twisted pairs from each run, and you only need one per side.)

pj
 
pjanda1 said:


I'm envious of your cabinets. I could veneer mine, but I know they'd be kind of ugly. I suppose you can't learn to do it well without first trying, but when they're the biggest things in your living room, you hate to do 'em ugly.

I bet the OSB will have some resonances and flex, but it will definitely let you know whether you are getting the bass you are after. Make sure you either use the recommended series resistor size, or order some plenum grade Cat5 (I'd get Belden) of the appropriate length. (One run will do, as you get four twisted pairs from each run, and you only need one per side.)

pj


"OSB" definitely not the best material that's for sure. But I can get 3/4" 4x8's really cheap.

As for the veneering, it's really not very hard. There's one or two techniques that one needs to understand but after that it's no deal. Traditionally veneer was adhered with hide glue and that's a difficult way to do it. Mills that produce veneered sheet stock usually use pva and then hot press it. Obviously the average diy guy isn't going to do that. But some of the modern contact adhesives work great and are fairly easy to use. Maybe I could write a tutorial so the average garage warrior could both build his boxes well, but also veneer them for a better appearance.

Rick
 
The BIB I simmed for the DX3 shouldn't need a series resistor.

Why those drivers? Monacor is the spiritual sucessor to the departed RS40 1354, but far better than the Rat Shack unit ever was. Blinding value for money. In a BIB, the VFM rate goes through the roof. No, not high end, but I'd put this up against any commercial speaker under ~£1000UK. No kidding.

FE168ESigma needs no introduction. It's in the BIB kill-zone for size, is superbly built, parameters are smack on for this sort of load, meaning the box doesn't need to be gigantically sized, and is a stunning sounding device. Plus, you can upgrade it with mass-loading brass rings, which I gather work extremely well. The math certainly suggests they should. Most drivers would benefit from some mass loading. The rings are expensive; no idea if the difference is worth the money. A subjective subject, that only the individual can decide.

FF165K was suggested to me, via Dan Mason, by our much-missed friend Terry Cain, after I'd built my fist pair of BIB test boxes with FE166Es to excellent results. Terry had tried it, complete with tweeter, and added that they 'thundered.' With that kind of recommendation, what was I supposed to do? ;) Yup, I tried it, and was left shaking my head wondering if there was actually an end to the extension. If there was, I never really found it in music, even with big Bach organ pieces. The Xmas puts people. Pity. These are stunning drivers. Don't go as high as some, but I'm not to bothered about that. The midrange is so fluid it's a wonder it doesn't just slip down drains. In a BIB, the combination melts together like whipped cream and hot chocolate. Detail in spadefuls too -with a magnet that size (borrowed from the FE166E), and no main cone / whizzer discontinuity as they just have an aluminium dust-cap, that's no surprise.

Scott
 
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-godzillabib.asp

I use the Fostex 168S (older style with wizzer). It works beautifully. Every day I’m amazed at the giant soundstage, ease of presentation and solid deep bass (with my Cary tube amp… the $30 Sonic Impact is bass light and it shows with these BIBs).

Just yesterday a music lover/musician friend commented that the BIBs were the best speakers he’s ever heard… the sax sounded real… and the bass was full. He said I outdid myself with this project. 

You can build BIBs with any of the drivers listed on this site:

http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp

There are more but for now you will have to search the giant BIB thread to find them.

BIBs share the same qualities because of their unique design. They all create large sonic images, they all delve deeply into the bass, bass is clean without exaggeration (room placement plays a role here) and they sound relaxed and detailed. They also share the fact they are BIG… but tall slender speakers have a way of disappearing when placed beside book cases or wall units. My BIBs don’t take up any more space than much smaller monitors I’ve had in the same basic spot.

I could go on… my next BIB will be for the 4” TB Bamboo… once I finish up a few other projects.
 
Bob Brines said:
I did write a tutorial on using PVA glue for veneering. See Veneering.

Bob


And a good tutorial it is Bob.

I do have a few qualms with some of your notions though.

First off there's no reason to consider contact adhesive harmful. With reasonable ventilation the fumes won't harm you, dust though, especially from flake & mdf is another story. Also it's not like the average diy'er will be around this stuff 5 days a week for years on end. I've worked around it for about 25 years and as of yet haven't suffered harm because of it. But again, the diy'er won't have any meaningful exposure.

Also about correcting mistakes. They can be dealt with on the fly. If a piece of veneer isn't aligned right simply release the adhesive with thinner and a putty knife and you can start over within a few minuets. Of course if your technique is adequate you won't be doing this procedure anyway.

Lets say you have a simple speaker cabinet ready to veneer. If you're going to veneer all 4 sides you'll start at the back. Then do the sides and lastly the front.

Cut your veneer pieces slightly over sized. About 1" in both directions is plenty. Spray the cabinet getting even application but don't drown the surface. If 80% is covered by adhesive then that's plenty. In turn spray the back of the veneer in the same manner.

After about 10 to 15 minutes the glued surface will be tacky and you're ready to veneer. Prior to this I should have mentioned to cut some lengths of dowel rod or thin strips of off fall. I didn't cause I'm writing this off the cuff. Anyway starting at one end of the cabinet place the rods about every 4". Now you can lay the veneer onto the rods. They will keep the two glued surfaces from touching each other and make it easy to align everything just right. This is critical when using book matched veneer. Once everything is positioned properly you simply remove one of the rods at an end and press the end of the veneer onto the cabinet surface. Using the rod you have just removed press the short section of veneer down until your at the edge of the next rod. Remove that one and continue until you reach the other end. This method is real close to fool proof. After a side or two you'll be amazed at how fast this goes.

Now that the back is veneered you need to apply pressure to the freshly veneered surface. If you don't have access to a J roller then borrow your wifes rolling pin. How ever you do it you just want to make sure the two surfaces are making good contact.

Next you'll want to trim off the excess veneer. The best and easiest method is to use a router with a flush trim bit. If you don't have access to a router you can trim it with a sharp box knife. If you use the knife method you'll want to cut with the grain to avoid tearout issues.

Now your surfaced is trimmed and ready to be cleaned up so you can continue to the next face. You are going to have some adhesive overspray on the sides so'll you want to remove that with some thinner and a rag. Remember you're in a reasonably ventilated area so the thinner poses no problem. You can always use a box fan and an opened window to create the ventilation.

Now being careful to not round over the corners you'll want to sand the edges of the bare face so as to insure the veneer is flush with the edge and not hanging over any.

Another tip that helps with this method is to after you've routed the edges flush, take a smooth faced hammer and follow the edge, tapping the veneer in place. This assures good contact at the edges.

Now you're ready to move on to the next side.

In your first attempt you'll want to take your time and not rush the process. That said if you're only veneering two enclosures you'll be done by supper assuming you started after lunch.

As with any method of veneering if you pay attention and don't cut corners your finished product will be successful. In my old cabinet shop there was a veneered desk in the office that had been done using this method. It had sat there catching afternoon sun for about 15 years before I got there. That'd make that veneered surface almost 40 years old. Yikes. What ever, if you do a good job any glue will work for you. I like this one because it gets the work done quickly. I can go from side to side immediately, there is no waiting for one side to cure. You also won't have any issues with bubbles.

Now just sand lightly, clean up any stray glue or dust and you're ready for your first coat of finish.

Do as you like but this method works and works well.

It's also quick.

Rick
 
Rick, the only problem with solvent based contact cements is if your finishing products (i.e. alcohol based stains, or nitrocellulose lacquers) have a similar volatile solvent carrier. Paper backed veneer is easily penetrated, and you can guess the results.

It has happened in our commerical business more than once where the contract called for site finishing by others, and their products destroyed the adhesion of factory laminated veneers. Repairing that on site is a true joy.

For those who don't have access to a cold press (which will only work on flat surfaces) or a vacuum bag system, the method described by Bob is virtually fool proof too. (it works fine for me, and I'm a famous fool - just ask around)
 
Chris,

As you probably know nitrocellulose lacquer is all but gone from the market, replaced by more modern formulations.

The finishing products I've used while being solvent based pose no threat what so ever to the contact adhesive below the veneer. The veneers I've used are well know types, paper backed and no line multi ply veneers. The reasons the solvent based finishes poses no threat to the adhesive are two fold. First modern film finishes flash off and cure much much to fast for any solvent to reach the adhesive. Plus the layers of material involved form a decent barrier as well. Veneer, glue, paper or additional veneer.

It's funny the finishing products I used to buy, I now sell. Campbells, Magnalac & Duravar are excellent products. My BIB's are finished with Duravar, as are my wifes dinning room table, chairs & server.

Besides veneered casework for commercial projects we used to produce architectural panels in house. These were produce on paint grade mdf. Just cut them to size, back them with gator ply, edgeband them and then veneer the face. After that they'd get 3 coats each side of Duravar.

No about the only type of finish that I might be wary of would be a slow curing oil. Even then I think you'd have to flood the surface very liberally a few times in short succession to see any ill affects. And since oil is such a poor finish I can't see that being a problem either.

Rick
 
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