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Sky_Knight 12th December 2006 12:22 PM

Horn + TL Project combined
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Hi there guys :)

It`s my first post here and I need some advice about a project that`s currently "under development". It`s an idea that occured to me after I made a horn project for the Visaton FR10 driver (the project wasn`t mine, it belongs to Daniel Petrov, from a bulgarian forum). Since it has great sound (for my taste of course) and the only thing it lacks is (as usual with horns) - low frequency coverage. So I thought it would be great to combine this fullrange speaker with a low freq driver - to let the full range do all the job and the low freq driver to play all frequencies below 300-400 Hz... So I`ve started planning and came up with the following.

A small horn, which is 35x20x20 external dimensions, which I wanted to play all frequencies above 300 Hz. Of course I don`t want to use a filter so I`ve tried to make the design in way, which it could filter those lower frequencies. And... the prototype.. was actually a succes. It plays quite equal all frequencie from 300 to 17000 Hz (I don`t want to go any higher - I don`t hear it... ;) ) And everything under 300Hz is almost unhearable. And that`s about it.

Check out the small drawing I made using Paint (I usually use pen and paper, so don`t blame me for the lame drawing!)

And if you have any advices, thoughts, opinions and etc. - write them. Right now with a friend of mine we`re working on the filter which we`re going to use. Oh, and the low freq driver is Visaton W170S. It has suitable parameters...

Basically the project is:
Visaton FR10 - 4 om
Visaton W170S - 8 om
with a low freq filter for W170S and
in a Horn with TL combined construction.

Thanks for any help guys! :)

Scottmoose 12th December 2006 12:41 PM

Fair enough. Of course, we can't blame the horn for a lack of LF -the FR10's Fs is up at 97Hz, so it's never going to be a bass champ, whatever you do with it. Combining with an integral TL seems a good idea IMO. Without specific dimensions it's difficult to comment upon what could be done to improve things -still, if you're happy with it, that's the aim after all! If you haven't already, I'd advise a read of Martin King's math at -many people don't realise that the tuning frequency of a TL is a function of both length and taper, not just length. If you selected a tuning frequency, and then /4 to get length, in this case, as your line is tapered, it will actally be tuned lower than intended.

Sky_Knight 12th December 2006 02:27 PM


I didn`t get into more details about the TL construction, because there is already a project (a fellow from the bulgarian forum) for a TL with W170S, his line is tuned for 36 Hz, which for this driver IMO is not a good idea. I`ve already read Martin J. King`s work. I only regret that I have the oldest versions of his models, because there is no way to pay him the asked fee, and it`s not because I don`t want to - it is quite impossible to do it from Bulgaria to US... Anyway. In a couple of days I`m going to make I bit more detailed project with measurements, angles and etc.

Basically I wanted you opinion on the whole idea TL + Horn in one single construction.... And if you can give me an advice about the filter for W170S, cause we`re stuck right now...

10x for replying :cheerful:

Sky_Knight 15th December 2006 02:32 PM

Ok, so that project appeared to be a ... well.. not quite possible. We`re stuck with the filter for the woofer. It seems a bad idea to do a crossover at 400 Hz... If you have any suggestions... :( And about the TL, it can go down to 47 Hz with the Visaton W170S. And a couple of friends said, that the idea of putting a horn and a TL construction in a single construction is sort of stupid and won`t work... So without their support I`m off the project for now... :(

gmilitano 15th December 2006 03:01 PM

How about putting the full range in a sealed portion of the enclosure and use a TL for the lower end response.

Pano 15th December 2006 08:46 PM


Originally posted by GG
How about putting the full range in a sealed portion of the enclosure and use a TL for the lower end response.
Yeah, that's what I thought. Why not put the FR-10 in a sealed box, if you want to go down to only 300Hz? Then use the TL for the woofer.

And isn't the taper on your TL backward? But I don't know much about TLs.

Sky_Knight 15th December 2006 09:12 PM

I already did test that possibility. I have a sealed enclosure for the FR10, but it doesn`t sound so light, and doesn`t have that same spacial feeling, that the horn has. And about the taper - it`s just a sketch - not a real project. And yes it`s getting narrower in the end. the mouth is equal to the Sd. And the space right behind the speaker is 1.7*Sd... The offset is 20 cm... I`m still running some tests. So these are not final numbers.

But as I said - the problem is not about the construction. It`s about the passive filter for the woofer. Right now I`m considering to change the driver - instead of W170S, to use W200S - it doesn`t have these peaks from 15-20db like the W170S in the mids....

Geoff H 17th December 2006 04:07 AM

Sky_Knight, from what I can see, you only need the one driver. You are not after a big bass sound, or are you?

A front firing w/r with a rear loaded T/L horn should do the job.

Either way, the crossover is the last thing to consider. If you do go 2-way, the crossover should simply couple the 2 compatible drivers.

The idea of multiple systems in one cabinet has a lot of merit, and has been around for a while. 2 (or more) T/Ls combined in one cabinet may be a way of reducing comb effect.

The suggestion of running a wide range in a sealed enclosure, with assistance from a bass unit to fill the lower end has loads of potential, and can be very pleasing. Not about to change mine.


MJK 17th December 2006 12:25 PM


2 (or more) T/Ls combined in one cabinet may be a way of reducing comb effect.
You lost me, what did you mean by two TLs combined in one cabinet?

Geoff H 17th December 2006 02:09 PM

Hi Martin, if the top driver were to fire into a t/l also, there may be an advantage, if the system resonances were such that when the outputs were combined, the freq res would be flatter. The Z curve would have 4 peaks of lower amplitude.

EG if the lower resonance f of the shorter line was placed midway between the resonances of the longer line. And of course finding suitable drivers could be a problem.

Also, I am not sure what effect, if any, the two ports may have on each other. Some frequencies may cause them to go out of phase, negating the whole excersize.

Any thoughts?


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