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Old 10th December 2006, 04:50 PM   #1
T11 is offline T11  Slovenia
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This will be long and is more like a question for the right direction.... hm...for more experienced ones.
I changed a lot of systems and built over this 8 years more or less all of the existing principles of loudspeaker design. From the conventional vented and sealed I stopped with front horns for the 206e and two subs. It is OK sound but I foundthat I missed that layered open soundstage that I had with OB and aperiodic boxes. I had some problems with the highs of the 206e too, but I solved them by dewhizering 206e and substituting the highs with small neodymium tweeter. It is richer and much smoother (transparency is on higher level also). But the horn sound is to big for my room- and they also.
I started to minimalize everything and got ridd of everything. Since my PC is on all the time I bought Audiokitlabs RD2 DAC and EMU1212m soundcard. Through the soundcard the sound is OK but worse than through my modded marantz 63se. We will se what happens with the new DAC. That problem I will solve on my own. The next one was amp- tried UCD but left me lukewarm, searched for 5 month and ended up with gregs GB150s modules. This problem will be sloved on my own also (that means I am confident in choices). The one I cannot resolve is about speakers.
I had great joy listening to OB with eminence beta 12lt (aka hammer dynamics almost) but now use it as a dewhizzered sub for horns-and is not bad at all. I had some smaller drivers from monacor and Fostex (103, 87, 164, sigma108 etc... fe206e sounded most promising but unfortunately with too crude highs and high-mids). Through the years I found that wheezer helped female vocals but did the damage to the space, soundstage and made crude top end (it is a horn afterall). Using bigger drivers like eminence made me realize tha music sounded more cohesive and with better microdynamic and had better body and less beaming (which I hate just as I hate now wheezer tone). As I would like to stop searching for new speakers for a while and enjoy music I realized that OB or aperiodic box with enough big driver without the wheezer and enough speed and transparency would be ideal. I like the sliver iris approach but am not sure about its transparency and sounstage portrayal. I also searched in the market of used drivers (like EV wolverine, Saba greencones, JBL LE8...) but always look back for new ones as I do not want any more extra dealing with the aged membrane and questionable magnet strenght etc...
what I nedd is a bit of extra guidence and feel like I should state what I liked by drivers I had and what I did not:
starting with the first one:
103 and 87 fostex: great vocals and busy midrange, fine colour and clean sound, good dispersion of sound, involving- but not enough power, too small sounding, needs some more transaprency and better definition of body (even with subs)
164 and 206E - 164 was a failure, 206e has great potential but it seems slow in mids and lower mids, needs some transparency and depth in imaging (soundstage depth that is), but clean open sound- can sing sometimes but is lifeless in colour (some involvement is lost).
eminence beta 12lt- great lower mids and some microdynamics at last, quite fast and articulatetd down there but lacks ultimate transparency (due to motor strenght vs heavy membrane I think)- can work on OB and that is a plus.

Almost all drivers with wheezer lacked the openess I searched for, all without had it. my new project should be based on a driver without wheezer, classic hemp or paper membrane, high qts (above 0.6) and doesn´t need a sub but a tweeter (if so...).

I am prepared to spent more money that I did until now (at least I know what I am searching for) and considered these drivers:
-silver iris
-some old (alnico suggestions, up to 10")or new midbass driver than manualy implented tweetr in the center of the cone (did it and it works ok, with some alignement on vertical axis)
-supravox 215 signature
-saba greencones (do not know how low they go but...) with supertweeter
-eminence 12lt with supertweeter and some mods on the magnet side (some strenght should be added...)
-(visaton B200 was on the list but it seems more as a midrange driver - problems with top end and bass)
-monacor sp200x (whizerless) + tweeter
-monacor sp200mx/8 (whizerless) + tweeter
-http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/paudio.html :BM8CXA 'Special'

I thank you all for reading this long thread and I hope we will find some solution that will work.
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Old 15th December 2006, 11:56 PM   #2
T11 is offline T11  Slovenia
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Join Date: Sep 2005

hehe, just to get you on the hook-so... or that thread was too much or has this story been told so many times all over...
Well, in the meantime I got an offer to listen to an OB devices from EMI-oval drivers with alnico, center of membrane is dark aluminium, I will listen to them next week I hope. I lay a lot of hope on them- the owner had a lot of vintage and new speakers that are mentioned in above thread- it says well for SABAs but says nevermind for the visatons and fostex drivers. He obtained a pair of this EMI drivers saying that they are faster and more natural then most, with very good resolution. I will post the results of listening test. If they beat my Fostex 206E in horns then they are The ones.
Currently I assembled eminence with a tweeter back and they are quite good- but compared to horns still slow and not so big or open sounding, should I not even start to talk about the loss of midrange resolution. It seems like I was very different or let say modest listener just a year ago when was thrilled by their sound.
Progress will kill me someday.

regards all
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Old 27th May 2007, 09:16 PM   #3
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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Yikes! Dewhizzering?!
Adding tweeters?!

I suppose nobody replied because this thread doesn't belong much in the fullrange section...

I was looking for info on the SP-200X , also to use it in OB paired with a large woofer...

It seems like a nice driver to me just the way it is...
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Old 27th May 2007, 09:20 PM   #4
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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This one also seems nice: (SP-130X/8)

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