I am in frustration as try my best to avoid any passive parts in my Saba's, etc. My green cones have the best magic & unreal transparancy I have heard, but the dang high mid peak. Every time a resistor of high quality , even 1, aka mills, is used in notch or padding or what ever, life goes with it..straight to voice coil is the dream. I have good 300B PP amp, & SE Klangfilm mono's & many other nice tube amps..just a shame, that I they get covered up with these filter's. Is there a GREAT fullranger in 8" or so that works well in OB that doesn't need a notch..? I have pristine signal from DAC to amp, TVC etc...I tried analog active & NOT for me...I am very hestant on the DEQ2496,,but this might have to do..What do you hard core Fullrange guy's do about not having any life sucking resistors & such in that part of the chain..I might try passive active, but then again there goes my pristine signal before amp that I have worked so hard on. I am going to keep running through German fullragers from late 40's to about 1955 or so. They are crazy good, but the green cones have that damn peak in the wrong spot for sure..I am in desperate need of help on which way to tackle this problem.
Hi JandG,
I can recommend the Supravox HP215 Sign. bicone. It is reasonable flat although I admit that I most often use a EQ plugin on my computer (for a little bit more top highs and more bass). Not the cheapest unit available for sure, but it is of very good quality. If you don't want any EQ I'd advise to use an additional subwoofer/stereo bass system with them if you want deeper bass. I use them in open baffles for openess
and speed. With other designs, more bass should be possible.
Good luck,
Fedde
I can recommend the Supravox HP215 Sign. bicone. It is reasonable flat although I admit that I most often use a EQ plugin on my computer (for a little bit more top highs and more bass). Not the cheapest unit available for sure, but it is of very good quality. If you don't want any EQ I'd advise to use an additional subwoofer/stereo bass system with them if you want deeper bass. I use them in open baffles for openess
and speed. With other designs, more bass should be possible.Good luck,
Fedde
Thanks for the help..
I use OB bass augmentaion when wnated or needed with certian types of music, entegration is a nice success via active BASH plates for the Vifa's. Today iam running the ribbon @ 2500 2nd order & a single .22mh air coil on Saba for 3500 1st..seems to be very nice, but of course not near what direct to amp can do...I have tried many, mnay differant combos of filters & such with the Saba, I wouldn't even mess with it if there wasn't that something speacial there. I will look into the Supravox, if they are under 400 for the pair I might go there.
I use OB bass augmentaion when wnated or needed with certian types of music, entegration is a nice success via active BASH plates for the Vifa's. Today iam running the ribbon @ 2500 2nd order & a single .22mh air coil on Saba for 3500 1st..seems to be very nice, but of course not near what direct to amp can do...I have tried many, mnay differant combos of filters & such with the Saba, I wouldn't even mess with it if there wasn't that something speacial there. I will look into the Supravox, if they are under 400 for the pair I might go there.
JandG,
Have you added more "blue-tack" and tried the felt yet?
I can't tell from the photo, but if you haven't, you really owe it to yourself to try it out before you spend the money for another set of drivers.
I'm reluctant to advise you to try cone damping as the Saba drivers may be hard to come by. I was happy, more or less, with the mids on my 1197's; they certainly measured well and sounded OK. However, after two thin coats of the Planet10 "puzzlecoat" and the addition of a pair of Dave's phase plugs they have a midrange that doesn't give up anything and, in fact, are better than many expensive speakers.
I'm sure that you can find a lot of info by doing a search on the forum, there have been a lot of threads that touched on this.
Best Regards,
TerryO
BTW: You've mentioned a high mid peak as the problem, have you tried disconnecting the tweeter and listening to them? With a 2nd order @2500 for the ribbon and a 1st order @3500 for the Saba, you might be allowing a peak in the overlap region. I might add, and it's only a vague opinion, that quite often ribbon tweeters are crossed over too low and they cause problems. I'd try a higher frequency and perhaps a different order crossover for the ribbon. Get some cheap caps and start at a lot higher frequency (I'd probably start at about 7kHz and work down).
You may have already done all this, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.
Have you added more "blue-tack" and tried the felt yet?
I can't tell from the photo, but if you haven't, you really owe it to yourself to try it out before you spend the money for another set of drivers.
I'm reluctant to advise you to try cone damping as the Saba drivers may be hard to come by. I was happy, more or less, with the mids on my 1197's; they certainly measured well and sounded OK. However, after two thin coats of the Planet10 "puzzlecoat" and the addition of a pair of Dave's phase plugs they have a midrange that doesn't give up anything and, in fact, are better than many expensive speakers.
I'm sure that you can find a lot of info by doing a search on the forum, there have been a lot of threads that touched on this.
Best Regards,
TerryO
BTW: You've mentioned a high mid peak as the problem, have you tried disconnecting the tweeter and listening to them? With a 2nd order @2500 for the ribbon and a 1st order @3500 for the Saba, you might be allowing a peak in the overlap region. I might add, and it's only a vague opinion, that quite often ribbon tweeters are crossed over too low and they cause problems. I'd try a higher frequency and perhaps a different order crossover for the ribbon. Get some cheap caps and start at a lot higher frequency (I'd probably start at about 7kHz and work down).
You may have already done all this, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.
I am considering the phase pugs...
I have used Dave's plugs on a shouty fe167 & it helped considerably. Thing is I am kinda scared at this point with doing it to these.,,I am seriously thinking of doing it though.it would be well worth it. also considering the puzzle coat. If I go phase plugs, then I go all the way. The pic doesn't show the blue tack application. I did add more & surpisingly helped alot. I can almost go without filters. The Saba's have a good top end & listen to them without tweeters all the time.. The Ribbon @ 2500 2nd & Saba @ 3500 1st was just for kicks, it actualy workes well. I use tests clips & try many , many differant orders & notches. The Fountek dc3 seems to not like 1st order unless way out there.. I use .22uf mostly,, But I think the peak in the Saba is @ 3000-4000 instead of the 1500 reported peak, Notches down in the 1500 area don't work for me at all. , notches around 3000-4000 work, but then the penalty of life killing the driver. so I thought to try a gentel 3500 1st & try the Foutek recommended 2500 2nd order. it is smooth for sure & no padding needed, which is a biggy for me, because it seems that any resistor in series with that ribbon is a real killer. a .6mh coil & 6.7uf auricap is used. I am new to all this & haveing the time of my life, this is seroiuse fun. I will ask Dave if he has made plugs for the Saba before or has something that will work..If I x higher than 4000 the peak is there, almost a ring of sorts.. if a .22mh coil is aplied to the 5ohm Saba the pe3ak is gone, but then of course top end is lost in the shuffle.I need more caps...I have quite a few, but need alot more values for test clipping circuits. I will try the felt very soon also..The hype on the saba;s is justfied in OB for sure, if I can get them to behave.There strenghths are amazing. I will keep tyring to cure the peak.
I have used Dave's plugs on a shouty fe167 & it helped considerably. Thing is I am kinda scared at this point with doing it to these.,,I am seriously thinking of doing it though.it would be well worth it. also considering the puzzle coat. If I go phase plugs, then I go all the way. The pic doesn't show the blue tack application. I did add more & surpisingly helped alot. I can almost go without filters. The Saba's have a good top end & listen to them without tweeters all the time.. The Ribbon @ 2500 2nd & Saba @ 3500 1st was just for kicks, it actualy workes well. I use tests clips & try many , many differant orders & notches. The Fountek dc3 seems to not like 1st order unless way out there.. I use .22uf mostly,, But I think the peak in the Saba is @ 3000-4000 instead of the 1500 reported peak, Notches down in the 1500 area don't work for me at all. , notches around 3000-4000 work, but then the penalty of life killing the driver. so I thought to try a gentel 3500 1st & try the Foutek recommended 2500 2nd order. it is smooth for sure & no padding needed, which is a biggy for me, because it seems that any resistor in series with that ribbon is a real killer. a .6mh coil & 6.7uf auricap is used. I am new to all this & haveing the time of my life, this is seroiuse fun. I will ask Dave if he has made plugs for the Saba before or has something that will work..If I x higher than 4000 the peak is there, almost a ring of sorts.. if a .22mh coil is aplied to the 5ohm Saba the pe3ak is gone, but then of course top end is lost in the shuffle.I need more caps...I have quite a few, but need alot more values for test clipping circuits. I will try the felt very soon also..The hype on the saba;s is justfied in OB for sure, if I can get them to behave.There strenghths are amazing. I will keep tyring to cure the peak.
JandG,
If the extra Blue-tack helped, then that's certainly encouraging. If you're convinced that the Sabas are the source of the peak (are you hearing this and/or measuring it?) then I'd leave the tweeter disconnected and remove or perhaps install a bypass switch for the inductor while sorting thru this problem. It might be a good idea to be able to test the Sabas both ways.
I believe that adding felt to the insides of the spokes would be the next step as it can only help and shouldn't present any problems. I used felt that I got at the local fabric store and it wasn't as thick as I would have wished. Thinking about it now, I probably could have used a couple of layers cut to shape and basted together on the edges (and the center area too, no flapping allowed !) with thread. I wouldn't glue them together as that would form a barrier between the layers and defeat the purpose. Use Aleene's Original Tacky Glue applied to the felt and press it into place.
Aleene's is great stuff, BTW. Mixed with drywall mud, it can be used on the inside of cabinets for adding mass and damping panel resonance. This mixture is very close, if not identical, to the "Glop" that North Creek used to sell. Aleene's is soft and never sets up hard, so it aids in suppressing vibration all by itself.
Another thought comes to mind, could you be experiencing a harmonic resonance from the baffle itself? From the picture it looks as it the baffle isn't braced. If you have a cd of test tones you might want to play those and listen to the speaker with or without a mechanic's Stethoscope held to the baffle. Perhaps you could place a length of 2X4 along one of the back edges of the baffle, held in place with several C-clamps, and see if anything sounds better or at least different.
It sounds as if you're a pretty methodical person, so perhaps you've already anticipated much of this and have already tried it out.
As always, these are just suggestions.
Best Regards,
TerryO
If the extra Blue-tack helped, then that's certainly encouraging. If you're convinced that the Sabas are the source of the peak (are you hearing this and/or measuring it?) then I'd leave the tweeter disconnected and remove or perhaps install a bypass switch for the inductor while sorting thru this problem. It might be a good idea to be able to test the Sabas both ways.
I believe that adding felt to the insides of the spokes would be the next step as it can only help and shouldn't present any problems. I used felt that I got at the local fabric store and it wasn't as thick as I would have wished. Thinking about it now, I probably could have used a couple of layers cut to shape and basted together on the edges (and the center area too, no flapping allowed !) with thread. I wouldn't glue them together as that would form a barrier between the layers and defeat the purpose. Use Aleene's Original Tacky Glue applied to the felt and press it into place.
Aleene's is great stuff, BTW. Mixed with drywall mud, it can be used on the inside of cabinets for adding mass and damping panel resonance. This mixture is very close, if not identical, to the "Glop" that North Creek used to sell. Aleene's is soft and never sets up hard, so it aids in suppressing vibration all by itself.
Another thought comes to mind, could you be experiencing a harmonic resonance from the baffle itself? From the picture it looks as it the baffle isn't braced. If you have a cd of test tones you might want to play those and listen to the speaker with or without a mechanic's Stethoscope held to the baffle. Perhaps you could place a length of 2X4 along one of the back edges of the baffle, held in place with several C-clamps, and see if anything sounds better or at least different.
It sounds as if you're a pretty methodical person, so perhaps you've already anticipated much of this and have already tried it out.
As always, these are just suggestions.
Best Regards,
TerryO
test tones...
I use a yamaha dx-7 programmable synth to test for resonances... something similar can be found on the internet. soft synth... It allows me to build harmonics, etc. with low power fundamental, higher power harmonics, like a cello, etc. that is just used as an example. actually I get to test whatever I want. I also get to take a small lead weight to hold down a key while using the stethoscope, etc.
as far as shoutiness goes, I think it very well could be from the crossover on the tweet. I tend to like the effect of a "supertweeter" far more. one crossed in at 10k and up. the ear is far less sensitive to crappiness there, whereas 3k is smack dab where the ear is going to be able to hear a loss in life, or a distortion, etc. my rationale? use the best sounding driver as much as you can, and make accomidations for its growing weirdnesses as you spread its playable spectrum along.
remember that all points are floating when you get to this level of fidelity and refinement. you will end up having to settle for one set of compromises or another. what do I do?
well, I don;t tend to play much with OB, so for high freq resonances, I just damp the horn CC
I use a yamaha dx-7 programmable synth to test for resonances... something similar can be found on the internet. soft synth... It allows me to build harmonics, etc. with low power fundamental, higher power harmonics, like a cello, etc. that is just used as an example. actually I get to test whatever I want. I also get to take a small lead weight to hold down a key while using the stethoscope, etc.
as far as shoutiness goes, I think it very well could be from the crossover on the tweet. I tend to like the effect of a "supertweeter" far more. one crossed in at 10k and up. the ear is far less sensitive to crappiness there, whereas 3k is smack dab where the ear is going to be able to hear a loss in life, or a distortion, etc. my rationale? use the best sounding driver as much as you can, and make accomidations for its growing weirdnesses as you spread its playable spectrum along.
remember that all points are floating when you get to this level of fidelity and refinement. you will end up having to settle for one set of compromises or another. what do I do?
well, I don;t tend to play much with OB, so for high freq resonances, I just damp the horn CC
It is not a shout issue as one would think..
It is not a shout issue persay as Fostex & such, it is a percieng ring that comes @ mid high, The ribbon cross @ 2500 2nd is for kicks & Most of the time is not used & if so I use a .22uf Auricap, so it is way out there.I will keep trying to get it out any way I can, without electrical filters. That is my goal..NO filters
It is not a shout issue persay as Fostex & such, it is a percieng ring that comes @ mid high, The ribbon cross @ 2500 2nd is for kicks & Most of the time is not used & if so I use a .22uf Auricap, so it is way out there.I will keep trying to get it out any way I can, without electrical filters. That is my goal..NO filters
I started my Fullrange journey with the Sabas, yes amazing sound for that money but the peak is very very obvious.. If you are willing to try other fullrangers I would recommend the Coral Flats 8,10 and the Beta 8 and 10... No filters need at all, you might find the Flats especially the Flat 10 a wee bit rolled but you can always add a tweeter.
Dampen the driver frame with felt, etc.
You could put a foam grille in front of the driver and lose all the high end
You could damp the cone and lose efficiency.
2 of these are throwing out the baby with the bathwater to some extent.....
Have you tried a variable resistor based notch filter? You can tune to the threshold of where you start to lose 'life', I bet you can take some of the edge off, with careful tuning, without any significant downside..
You could put a foam grille in front of the driver and lose all the high end
You could damp the cone and lose efficiency.
2 of these are throwing out the baby with the bathwater to some extent.....
Have you tried a variable resistor based notch filter? You can tune to the threshold of where you start to lose 'life', I bet you can take some of the edge off, with careful tuning, without any significant downside..
badman said:
B-Man,
I don't neccessarily disagree with what you've said above, but my experience has been that a couple of thin coats of "Puzzle Coat" doesn't effect the efficiency very much, if at all. It does effect high frequency extention to a degree that may have beneficial results, or not, it depends on what you're looking for. It does dampen ringing a fair amount and evens out the frequency response in the applications that I've done, which were confirmed by measurements done by Dan Wiggins of Adire Audio. I do know that if done correctly that the improvements far outweigh any negative effects that may be present.
You suggest a variable resistor based notch filter, and that may indeed be the answer, but I would look to a mechanical solution first. This is perhaps a difference in approach while looking for a similar result. As has been said before: "There's more than one way to skin a cat."
Best Regards,
TerryO
Thanks for the help..
Badman.. can you explain how to do the variable resistor based notch, so I can try it if all else fails, I just recieved a set of rare mag type, Saba black cones in earlly version, will be intresting to see if they have same peak.
BTW- Thanks for the Coral recommendation. I know I won't be getting Beta 8's or 10's at the prices I have seen lately, The flats might be possible..I will learn alot in this process. A mechanical solution would be perfect for me, if it can be done, we will see in time. i am logging all the recommended behaved Fullrangers for sure.
Badman.. can you explain how to do the variable resistor based notch, so I can try it if all else fails, I just recieved a set of rare mag type, Saba black cones in earlly version, will be intresting to see if they have same peak.
BTW- Thanks for the Coral recommendation. I know I won't be getting Beta 8's or 10's at the prices I have seen lately, The flats might be possible..I will learn alot in this process. A mechanical solution would be perfect for me, if it can be done, we will see in time. i am logging all the recommended behaved Fullrangers for sure.
A variable notch filter will be a variable power resistor of some sort (generally an L-pad), in series with a paralleled inductor/capacitor combination. Generally you'd be looking at a parallel network (parallel to the driver). You'll want to use something along the lines of 10-20 ohms, even as low as 8, and you'll have to calculate the inductor and capacitor to get the desired notch profile. Once you have a deep notch at the problem frequency via the inductor and cap, you use the variable resistor to tune how much of a cut they provide.
It'll take a little fiddling and math to get it right.
My only problem with cone treatment solutions is that they're typically impossible to reverse, and we're talking about some nice drivers. If you do go this route, go SLOWLY, and make the changes in very very very small increments and measure and listen until you find where you want to be.
It'll take a little fiddling and math to get it right.
My only problem with cone treatment solutions is that they're typically impossible to reverse, and we're talking about some nice drivers. If you do go this route, go SLOWLY, and make the changes in very very very small increments and measure and listen until you find where you want to be.
A conjecture:JandG said:
Perhaps the high/mid peak is the exact thing that you hear as "magic", "transparency", and "life".
If you really don't want a filter between your monoblocks and the Sabas, then use a line level filter (active or passive) in front of the monoblocks. Some sort of adjustable notch filter, where you could change the dB, frequency, and Q, would be ideal, because you could fiddle with it on the fly.
Here's a site with some measurements on saba's and other vintage speakers: http://home.arcor.de/pfaue/klangkue/gruenwunder/galerie/galerie.htm
I used to own a pair of ferrite magnet greencones and sold them after listening to them for two minutes - The high-mid shout being awfull. Imo the only reason why greencones are so famous is that they can easily be recognised amongst all the others (well, they are green) and the hype just can't be stopped since. You might want to take a look into oval speakers, these often perform better than round ones.
I don't think the notch filter is a good idea either, if you have a problem with a first order XO than you'll definitely have one with a parallel notch filter. I've gone through the same journey with my beyma 8ag/n's and although the notch is an overall better solution the magic IS gone (and it has more to do with naturalness and projection of the sound as with altered FR). They're now collecting dust.
fwiw
Simon
I used to own a pair of ferrite magnet greencones and sold them after listening to them for two minutes - The high-mid shout being awfull. Imo the only reason why greencones are so famous is that they can easily be recognised amongst all the others (well, they are green) and the hype just can't be stopped since. You might want to take a look into oval speakers, these often perform better than round ones.
I don't think the notch filter is a good idea either, if you have a problem with a first order XO than you'll definitely have one with a parallel notch filter. I've gone through the same journey with my beyma 8ag/n's and although the notch is an overall better solution the magic IS gone (and it has more to do with naturalness and projection of the sound as with altered FR). They're now collecting dust.
fwiw
Simon
Worst case is trying more divers...
Since only bieng in fullrange for less than a year & no plans to return to dedicated drivers, the journey will just continue if this failes with the very early saba black cones & the greens. I have seen graphs on the saba's & they differ with differant magnet assemblies.. I can compare to Fostex fe167e & the shout they have in the vocals, even with phase plugs & such is not what I got going on here, this ring & peak is at a higher range..I think.. The magic I speak is not the peak.. I have found that coils don't bother me to much & seem to have less negitives..but resistors seem to kill dynamics quick, & quick..something I do not like..I I notice that factory German set ups I have seen have the tweeter @ 10uf cap & that is it on the Saba set ups..I will give the earlly black cones a shot for sure this weekend..& also work on the greens..I will be getting a differant set of FR's to try soon, with a 400.00 limit for them, not to worried about top extension,, just as long as they can get to 70hz in OB with fairly small baffles. 24" x36" or so..I then augment with active OB bass help when wanted..seems to work just fine. the passive active network in front of my amps might be a solution also, & will look at my Tube Cad program for Idea's on that also. Also I thought the hype on green cones was just that & wouldn'y hesistate to sell them if there wasn't something there worth giving it shot..without dought they have that something,& just trying to sqeeze it out without those big neg's.. I have tried active op-amp based XO's & definatlly NOT for me & unit is for sale soon. Also I have a nice signal going on to my amp, NO op-amps what soever from DAC thru amp.. TVC with nice cable's & that it is, so very shy about sticking things in it's path, believe me I can hear the differance between PEC pots mouted in amps & a TVC...also 1 single op-amp in front of my amp is easily heard with very negitive results to me, opa-627 or what ever..so I just run completely by-passed output stages on my DACs, & signal fed thru best caps I can a afford. PIO or Auricap. all this is a fine line I suppose & will try most all the suggetions, except maybe the cone treatment. last p[air of the Saba's I have went for $255.00 on e-bay last month..so I would have to keep them forever if I do the cone mod.
If the black cones with extremelly large VAC mag have the same peak, that might make me go a differant direction on FR's..maybe hemp or something..Thank you for all the suggestions & help
Since only bieng in fullrange for less than a year & no plans to return to dedicated drivers, the journey will just continue if this failes with the very early saba black cones & the greens. I have seen graphs on the saba's & they differ with differant magnet assemblies.. I can compare to Fostex fe167e & the shout they have in the vocals, even with phase plugs & such is not what I got going on here, this ring & peak is at a higher range..I think.. The magic I speak is not the peak.. I have found that coils don't bother me to much & seem to have less negitives..but resistors seem to kill dynamics quick, & quick..something I do not like..I I notice that factory German set ups I have seen have the tweeter @ 10uf cap & that is it on the Saba set ups..I will give the earlly black cones a shot for sure this weekend..& also work on the greens..I will be getting a differant set of FR's to try soon, with a 400.00 limit for them, not to worried about top extension,, just as long as they can get to 70hz in OB with fairly small baffles. 24" x36" or so..I then augment with active OB bass help when wanted..seems to work just fine. the passive active network in front of my amps might be a solution also, & will look at my Tube Cad program for Idea's on that also. Also I thought the hype on green cones was just that & wouldn'y hesistate to sell them if there wasn't something there worth giving it shot..without dought they have that something,& just trying to sqeeze it out without those big neg's.. I have tried active op-amp based XO's & definatlly NOT for me & unit is for sale soon. Also I have a nice signal going on to my amp, NO op-amps what soever from DAC thru amp.. TVC with nice cable's & that it is, so very shy about sticking things in it's path, believe me I can hear the differance between PEC pots mouted in amps & a TVC...also 1 single op-amp in front of my amp is easily heard with very negitive results to me, opa-627 or what ever..so I just run completely by-passed output stages on my DACs, & signal fed thru best caps I can a afford. PIO or Auricap. all this is a fine line I suppose & will try most all the suggetions, except maybe the cone treatment. last p[air of the Saba's I have went for $255.00 on e-bay last month..so I would have to keep them forever if I do the cone mod.
If the black cones with extremelly large VAC mag have the same peak, that might make me go a differant direction on FR's..maybe hemp or something..Thank you for all the suggestions & help
Have you considered the Hawthorne audio silver iris coax? People seem to love them in OB - what they're designed for - and I haven't heard much about the need for extra circuits with these.... a guy called hurdygurdyman (you'll find him on the decware forum) has a widely approved tweak to optimise the crossover..... This combination has been said to sound even better than visaton b200 in open baffle........
edit: it does have resistors in the XO, didn't think of that.
Good luck to you,
Simon
edit: it does have resistors in the XO, didn't think of that.
Good luck to you,
Simon
Here is a link to information that I hope will be useful.
Good luck!
NW
http://de.geocities.com/peter_rehkop/system.html
Good luck!
NW
http://de.geocities.com/peter_rehkop/system.html
Re: Worst case is trying more divers...
The Black cones Sabas IMO are better than the Green Cones but it still has that peak. At one of our local Diy meetings, we once put a first order crossover to roll the highs and peak of the Black Sabas off and added a Fostex tweeter for the highs .. sound quite good.
JandG said:
The Black cones Sabas IMO are better than the Green Cones but it still has that peak. At one of our local Diy meetings, we once put a first order crossover to roll the highs and peak of the Black Sabas off and added a Fostex tweeter for the highs .. sound quite good.
Yes, that is what I have found to work also..
I found that a single .22mh aircoil for a 3500hz 1st order is better than any notch filter I have made with premium parts. Then I bring in the ribbon at variouse spots & not finding the perfect spot yet..I have ribbon at 2500 2nd order now, & sonics are quite good. No padding on ribbon needed. Is the coil on the black cones what you did also..? If it wasn't for the excellent lowend IMO & excellect low mids I would abondon the saba's. I will work with them for a while longer. I would try the SI's but the xo, is what it is,,a comprimise that I am not sure I want tmake, so B200 might be what comes in the mail for me soon. I have multiple tube systems so I can tweek on OB while just listening to another when failure is present, which is alot.......*s* but I am very intrested in what you used in your 1st order cross to dump the peak,,I feel it is in the 3000-4000hz area..that is what my ears tell me. My TrueRTA is not functional yet. .. aalso why would the ribbon @ 2500 2nd work so well with a 3500 1st on the SABA . I have tried many, many other XO combo's & this one is good. But with the consequence of the obviouse. The outstading vocal ability of the Saba's are retained with the way I run now. Can you remeber the value of coil they used at that DIY event.?s
Also kinda exciting to know the black cones might sound even better. These are the very earlly ones with the mosnter slug of Alnico by VAC. & luckily they arrived as stated condition, from Germany. Thanks
I found that a single .22mh aircoil for a 3500hz 1st order is better than any notch filter I have made with premium parts. Then I bring in the ribbon at variouse spots & not finding the perfect spot yet..I have ribbon at 2500 2nd order now, & sonics are quite good. No padding on ribbon needed. Is the coil on the black cones what you did also..? If it wasn't for the excellent lowend IMO & excellect low mids I would abondon the saba's. I will work with them for a while longer. I would try the SI's but the xo, is what it is,,a comprimise that I am not sure I want tmake, so B200 might be what comes in the mail for me soon. I have multiple tube systems so I can tweek on OB while just listening to another when failure is present, which is alot.......*s* but I am very intrested in what you used in your 1st order cross to dump the peak,,I feel it is in the 3000-4000hz area..that is what my ears tell me. My TrueRTA is not functional yet. .. aalso why would the ribbon @ 2500 2nd work so well with a 3500 1st on the SABA . I have tried many, many other XO combo's & this one is good. But with the consequence of the obviouse. The outstading vocal ability of the Saba's are retained with the way I run now. Can you remeber the value of coil they used at that DIY event.?s
Also kinda exciting to know the black cones might sound even better. These are the very earlly ones with the mosnter slug of Alnico by VAC. & luckily they arrived as stated condition, from Germany. Thanks
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