Upgrading from a 166esr BLH?

boonedog · 9th November 2006, 04:12 AM

I built a Fostex recommended BLH for the 166esr driver about a year and half ago. I've used it with a 2a3 SET amp and have I've throughly enjoyed the speaker. It was my first adventure into fullrange speakers/horns and I must say I am hooked. I'm just wondering where one goes from here for improvement. I've been looking at the lowthers but people seem to have a love or hate response to them, so I'm not sure. Anyone with experience using the 166esr have any ideas on an upgrade path for me?

I like the 166esr's but seem to find a little bit missing on the top and bottom ends. I also find they lose some of their coherency on heavy rock but as I mostly listen to acoustic music I would never want to sacrifice the smooth midrange for more seperation.

Chad

Scottmoose · 9th November 2006, 08:03 AM

Not easily is the quick answer. The 166ES-R is one of the finest FR drivers around. Fostex know what they're doing. To get a signifiant upgrade, you'd have to shift to Lowthers or a multi-way horn system like the VOTT. Remember, no FR driver, however good it is, is ever going to be as good as a multi-way at rock or, say, big orchestral pieces: they just can't do the massive dynamic swings, though the better ones like the ES-R and Lowthers make a pretty fair fist of it.

Before changing drivers, you might want to try a different cabinet. Simple and quick would be to try a couple of BIB enclosures for them -see www.zillaspeak/bib.asp for ES-R dimensions. Beyond that; I'm currently working on a pair of ~8ft double horns for these, the standard 166, and the 168ESigma. Dave and I have done 3 big chamber, short horn cabinets (see the Spawn of Frugelhorn thread -Harvey, Iris and Bruce, Iris being the one for 6 1/2in drivers) and we're starting on long path, small chamber double horn fairly soon.

Scott

hm · 9th November 2006, 10:05 AM

one new technic solution would be the
POSAUNE specially made for Manger and Fostex 16 cm:

http://www.hm-moreart.de/7.htm

one1speed · 9th November 2006, 01:22 PM

Could try the 206ES-Rs, or the new 208 coming out next year. Or the top of the heap, as I understand, are the AER drivers.

boonedog · 9th November 2006, 02:35 PM

I'd definitely be interested in how the double horns work out for the 166esr. I always liked the look of the Cain&Cain double horns.

Has anyone did a direct comparision between the 166esr and the 206esr? I was thinking of of the 206esr but wasn't sure if would be significant step up. Also the rumor of the 208esr sounds interesting. Maybe if I waited a 208esr and super tweeter would give me an improvemnent in the top and bottom ends?

I'd love to build a Lamhorn 1.8 type of enclosure for the an AER driver but have never found any DIY designs out there. HAs anyone out there ever tried to design such a cabnit? The AER I think at present is a little out of my price range but something I would definitely try and scrape the money together for if the right DIY design could be found.

Andrewbee · 9th November 2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

I'm currently working on a pair of ~8ft double horns for these, the standard 166, and the 168ESigma.

Scott, Scott, Scott, what is wrong with you!
You know I am weak!
My 166ES-R BiB's are barely a few weeks old and now you have a new enclosure for me to build?

Everytime I walk into the hardware store they start to smile and ask
"how many sheets of ply today sir?"

So, how many will I need Scott?

Scottmoose · 9th November 2006, 04:59 PM

If you don't indulge yourself in this life, nobody else will

Might take a little while guys as I've got a few things on at present, both in the audio world and elsewhere, but the design should hopefully appear before Christmas.

Re the ply, probably a total of 3 sheets of 4 x 8 for two cabinets. They'll be about 6ft tall with an 8ft pathlength, give or take.

Andrewbee · 9th November 2006, 06:38 PM

Scott, I cannot believe you would let a doctorate get in the way of important things like hobbies

Well, I am always up to a Christmas present.

Thanks Scott.

paba · 10th November 2006, 06:18 PM

Hi all,

I have two 166esr sitting in their boxes and waiting for me to get off my back side and build those fostex BLH too.

I think an upgrade would be expensive... supravox, phy-hp, Aer, lowther, reps.

I've heard the lamhorn fed by 300B and it is great. To bad they don't sell the plans or something.

Myself, I'm thinking that if after some time I want to upgrade it will either be adding sub and super tweeter or if some new cabinet design comes out specifically for 166esr.

I'm also wandering if the DIATONE P-610MB might be an option too.

Or if fostex releases a limited edition version of the sigma series 168ez.

cheers
paba

Badwater · 11th November 2006, 07:24 PM

I also have been using the 166ESR in a back loaded horn. I added a sub similiar to the C & C Baily, using a Seas 10". Major improvement on the enjoyment factor. I am now investigating adding a supertweeter. Thinking of the Fostex T90A as offered by Madisound for their BK16 kit.

I have playing arround with full range drivers for 3-4 years and FE266ESR in the BLH is one of the best that I have heard.

Good Luck,

Bill

9th November 2006, 04:12 AM	#1
boonedog diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: PEI	Upgrading from a 166esr BLH? I built a Fostex recommended BLH for the 166esr driver about a year and half ago. I've used it with a 2a3 SET amp and have I've throughly enjoyed the speaker. It was my first adventure into fullrange speakers/horns and I must say I am hooked. I'm just wondering where one goes from here for improvement. I've been looking at the lowthers but people seem to have a love or hate response to them, so I'm not sure. Anyone with experience using the 166esr have any ideas on an upgrade path for me? I like the 166esr's but seem to find a little bit missing on the top and bottom ends. I also find they lose some of their coherency on heavy rock but as I mostly listen to acoustic music I would never want to sacrifice the smooth midrange for more seperation. Chad

9th November 2006, 10:05 AM	#3
hm diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: near Hamburg Germany	double horn one new technic solution would be the POSAUNE specially made for Manger and Fostex 16 cm: http://www.hm-moreart.de/7.htm __________________ http://www.hm-moreart.de

9th November 2006, 06:38 PM	#8
Andrewbee diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Cayman Islands	Scott, I cannot believe you would let a doctorate get in the way of important things like hobbies Well, I am always up to a Christmas present. Thanks Scott. __________________ None of us are leaving this world alive. Enjoy it responsibly as you may.

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9th November 2006, 08:03 AM	#2
Scottmoose diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK	Not easily is the quick answer. The 166ES-R is one of the finest FR drivers around. Fostex know what they're doing. To get a signifiant upgrade, you'd have to shift to Lowthers or a multi-way horn system like the VOTT. Remember, no FR driver, however good it is, is ever going to be as good as a multi-way at rock or, say, big orchestral pieces: they just can't do the massive dynamic swings, though the better ones like the ES-R and Lowthers make a pretty fair fist of it. Before changing drivers, you might want to try a different cabinet. Simple and quick would be to try a couple of BIB enclosures for them -see www.zillaspeak/bib.asp for ES-R dimensions. Beyond that; I'm currently working on a pair of ~8ft double horns for these, the standard 166, and the 168ESigma. Dave and I have done 3 big chamber, short horn cabinets (see the Spawn of Frugelhorn thread -Harvey, Iris and Bruce, Iris being the one for 6 1/2in drivers) and we're starting on long path, small chamber double horn fairly soon. Scott

9th November 2006, 01:22 PM	#4
one1speed diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ohio	Could try the 206ES-Rs, or the new 208 coming out next year. Or the top of the heap, as I understand, are the AER drivers.

9th November 2006, 02:35 PM	#5
boonedog diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: PEI	I'd definitely be interested in how the double horns work out for the 166esr. I always liked the look of the Cain&Cain double horns. Has anyone did a direct comparision between the 166esr and the 206esr? I was thinking of of the 206esr but wasn't sure if would be significant step up. Also the rumor of the 208esr sounds interesting. Maybe if I waited a 208esr and super tweeter would give me an improvemnent in the top and bottom ends? I'd love to build a Lamhorn 1.8 type of enclosure for the an AER driver but have never found any DIY designs out there. HAs anyone out there ever tried to design such a cabnit? The AER I think at present is a little out of my price range but something I would definitely try and scrape the money together for if the right DIY design could be found.

9th November 2006, 04:59 PM	#7
Scottmoose diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK	If you don't indulge yourself in this life, nobody else will Might take a little while guys as I've got a few things on at present, both in the audio world and elsewhere, but the design should hopefully appear before Christmas. Re the ply, probably a total of 3 sheets of 4 x 8 for two cabinets. They'll be about 6ft tall with an 8ft pathlength, give or take.

10th November 2006, 06:18 PM	#9
paba diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Montreal	Hi all, I have two 166esr sitting in their boxes and waiting for me to get off my back side and build those fostex BLH too. I think an upgrade would be expensive... supravox, phy-hp, Aer, lowther, reps. I've heard the lamhorn fed by 300B and it is great. To bad they don't sell the plans or something. Myself, I'm thinking that if after some time I want to upgrade it will either be adding sub and super tweeter or if some new cabinet design comes out specifically for 166esr. I'm also wandering if the DIATONE P-610MB might be an option too. Or if fostex releases a limited edition version of the sigma series 168ez. cheers paba

11th November 2006, 07:24 PM	#10
Badwater diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Harrisburg, PA	I also have been using the 166ESR in a back loaded horn. I added a sub similiar to the C & C Baily, using a Seas 10". Major improvement on the enjoyment factor. I am now investigating adding a supertweeter. Thinking of the Fostex T90A as offered by Madisound for their BK16 kit. I have playing arround with full range drivers for 3-4 years and FE266ESR in the BLH is one of the best that I have heard. Good Luck, Bill

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