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-   -   Going crazy trying to choose a speaker enclosure! (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/89954-going-crazy-trying-choose-speaker-enclosure.html)

mrbubbs 9th November 2006 01:33 AM

Going crazy trying to choose a speaker enclosure!
 
Hello, all.. first-time poster here. I've been spending several weeks, up until 5AM, just reading all that I can about the unique enclosures everyone is making here. This is an interesting site in that it took a bit of research just to understand all of the acronyms being thrown around. All of the member fullrange pictures are very inspiring.

I'm very intrigued with TL-style enclosures in that I can place them closer to the wall than, say, planars. I also enjoy the possibility of getting better sound out of an enclosure I build myself. Oh, and the low frequency benefits are just as important.

I think since this is my first project, I would start out with a basic 2-fold TL enclosure. I've been reading through the threads about Martin King's excellent MathCad sheets but I'm on a Mac and I don't even really know how to use them in the first place, so I was going to rely on existing enclosure plans. It's tough to find a good enclosure choice here, there are so many, and I know it just depends on what you want to do, but are there really any tried-and-true enclosure plans that folks here reference? I was excited to see the thread on the diyAudio Full Range Reference Project but got lost in the >700 replies. I was expecting to see the discussion produce a finalized project plan but I wasn't sure where that would be, or if the planning was still in progress. I couldn't tell if specifications listed were old revisions or the latest. I am sure the

Anyway, I've got 2 200W mono blocks sitting here, staring me in the face, and I'm stuck with a pair of traditional, sealed Avid model 230 speakers with not so much money. I'm trying to come up with a cabinet that doesn't need to be efficient and can get as low as possible while still retaining the upper frequencies with some amount of dignity. Impedance is not much of an issue, nor efficiency, per se. I've got a fair amount of cash to spend on the drivers and materials, just not enough to buy prices that Rega and ProAc, etc. are asking. I'm open to single, 2-way, or more configurations.

I'm also concerned that the drivers "fill" the 15'Wx25'Lx10'H wooden-floored room I'm listening in. Maybe this is where Martin's MathCad sheets' in-room response calculations would help. In any case, I wouldn't know how to tell what kind of speakers and enclosures from members here would react to my room characteristics.

Thanks for reading,

Brian

Pano 9th November 2006 06:38 AM

Hi Brian, welcome to the forum.

Just too many choices, you're right! So let me point you toward the BIB TL enclosure. It's winning new fans every day. Just a simple 2 fold, like you want, but a big one. You can see more on Godzilla's Site.

Go small, go large, whatever strikes your fancy. It is easy to build and the choice of drivers is wide. If you have a bit of cash to drop on drivers, think what a really nice 8" coax driver could do.
Have a look at the BIBs for the 8" hemp driver. The 2001 monolith is tall and wide, but not deep. Only 8" out from the wall! Cool, huh?

The BIB thread is now immensely long, but there are some new shorter threads to look at. Have a look and tell us what you think.

Scottmoose 9th November 2006 08:46 AM

Problem is Brian, though you mention room size, you haven't told us a whole lot else. What sort of music do you listen to? How far from the speakers are you, and where are they positioned. What sort of sound do you value most in a speaker. And, not least important, although you say you've got a fair amount of cash to spend, giving us an approximate figure would be useful so we can guide you in the right direction. I can make a couple of suggestions straight off which might be useful for simple, 2 fold lines.

Starting with single drivers; a BIB with 8in drivers would be good -the hemp version[s] Greg and I have done have already been mentioned; the Fostex variations; with the FE206E, FE207E or FE208ESigma have equally good bass, and a smaller footprint too. These are tall boxes (as in about 6 1/2ft tall), but they don't take up much room. They do need at least a wall to the side or the rear to load them properly though as they're corner horns. Big bass performance from these cabinets. They're not the monitor flat, but have a very open sound. Even the versions for 6 1/2in drivers would work providing you chose the driver with care and got them loaded right in-room. You might need to add some series resistance though to prevent your amp from over-damping the drivers, which are fairly low Q.

If these are a bit too large for you, sticking with the single driver theme, you could look at buying Bob's FTA200 TL plans. This is a traditional, 6:1 reverse taper line for the mighty Fostex F200a. See Bob's site for more: http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/
Bob sells other plans, but this is likely to be the only one that might be able to fill a room your size, though I suspect it'd still be a struggle. FR drivers really do need horn loading to work in a big space.

Looking at 2 ways, I'd probably go for a Seas Thor kit. Thor is not entirely to my taste, but it should work very well in your room and with your amplifiers, as those magnesium coned drivers love a bit of current to tickle them. There's a few different versions of the cabinet too: Fat Thor, Small Thor, Short Thor etc., should you feel like trying a different enclosure. It's not a cheap kit, but nobody would deny that the components are of superb quality. If you like the clean, perfectly controlled monitor sound and value smooth precision and detail, this could be the way forward. Clobbers most commercial box speakers for about 1/2 the price, and beats most in that it's a TL, with all the advantages of smooth impedence and excellent damping these give. Bass is not as good as it could be (hence the alternative cabinets), but the original cabinet can be greatly improved by pulling the stuffing out of the last few inches of the line. It all depends how much you want to spend of course.

Hope some of this is of use
Scott

pinkmouse 9th November 2006 09:18 AM

Buy some cheap chipboard and knock up a few test enclosures to see what suits your room. They don't have to be aesthetically perfect, but will give you a good idea of what is possible. It also gives you something to listen to whilst going all out on the final cabs. ;)

AMV8 9th November 2006 12:39 PM

Hi Mrbubbs

I support pinkmouse. You will a lot of difference in the sound ouf different speakers and different enclosures. Some are more detailed and best for vocals and classical. Others have strong base but generally less detail and are better suited for modern music.

Full range speakers do not have crossover distortion and are smooth sounding. I prefer to use a 5" midrange that is direct connected, that is no crossover, with assistance in the high treble from a filtered treble unit and assistance in the low base from a filtered base unit.That way I get clear detailed mid range and voices without filters and then some assistance in the highs and lows. The advantage of a 5" midrange over a full range is that the lighter cone and magnet allows more detail. I make the mid range enclosure very very rigid. The base enclosure is less critical. If this is of interest let me know and I can provide more details.

Try some and see what you like best. If possible I would go to a shop and listen first of all to various types. How you like to hear music really is a very personal choice and we do not all like the same music or presentation.

Listen, experiment and most of all enjoy it - do not get hung up on specifications.

Don

gychang 9th November 2006 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scottmoose
P And, not least important, although you say you've got a fair amount of cash to spend, giving us an approximate figure would be useful so we can guide you in the right direction. I can make a couple of suggestions straight off which might be useful for simple, 2 fold lines.

Starting with single drivers; a BIB with 8in drivers would be good -the hemp version[s]

Scott


BIB should not be ignored. Take a look at:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=89831

Your problem may be too much $$ left over, may have to get another amp since your wattage may go to a waste.

gychang

lovechild 9th November 2006 02:07 PM

Re: Going crazy trying to choose a speaker enclosure!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mrbubbs
... 15'Wx25'Lx10'H wooden-floored room ...

Nice roomsize for a Linkwitz Dipole

http://www.hifi-forum.de/images/smilies/lips.gif

LC

Pano 9th November 2006 08:57 PM

Re: Re: Going crazy trying to choose a speaker enclosure!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by lovechild
Nice roomsize for a Linkwitz Dipole
That was my first thought, but he does say he wants to get closer to he wall than a planar allows. Still a good option for his room and power.

mrbubbs 10th November 2006 07:30 AM

Hey, panomaniac...

As soon as I checked out that monolith enclosure, I was in love! I have a rather large wall I could push the enclosure against. The driver is even interesting.. I like its specs. The enclosure even seems fairly doable for my amateur woodworking skills. Thanks for the pointer! This is going to be my (first of many!) enclosure design that I'll build.

Quote:

Originally posted by panomaniac
Hi Brian, welcome to the forum.

Just too many choices, you're right! So let me point you toward the BIB TL enclosure. It's winning new fans every day. Just a simple 2 fold, like you want, but a big one. You can see more on Godzilla's Site.

Go small, go large, whatever strikes your fancy. It is easy to build and the choice of drivers is wide. If you have a bit of cash to drop on drivers, think what a really nice 8" coax driver could do.
Have a look at the BIBs for the 8" hemp driver. The 2001 monolith is tall and wide, but not deep. Only 8" out from the wall! Cool, huh?

The BIB thread is now immensely long, but there are some new shorter threads to look at. Have a look and tell us what you think.


mrbubbs 10th November 2006 07:30 AM

I agree.. I was scarce on details. I didn't want to sound like I was pushing anyone into coming up with an exact enclosure plan. I mainly wanted a pointer to a few tried-and-tested first-timer enclosures. As said before, I was interested in the group DIY BiB project but the thread was so long, I kinda got lost. :)

I'm probably going to try my hand at that 2001 monolith that you conceived. I love that thing! I do have some questions about the design and build for the enclosure but I have to gather the questions up so that I make more sense than I did in my first post.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scottmoose
Problem is Brian, though you mention room size, you haven't told us a whole lot else. What sort of music do you listen to? How far from the speakers are you, and where are they positioned. What sort of sound do you value most in a speaker. And, not least important, although you say you've got a fair amount of cash to spend, giving us an approximate figure would be useful so we can guide you in the right direction. I can make a couple of suggestions straight off which might be useful for simple, 2 fold lines.

Starting with single drivers; a BIB with 8in drivers would be good -the hemp version[s] Greg and I have done have already been mentioned; the Fostex variations; with the FE206E, FE207E or FE208ESigma have equally good bass, and a smaller footprint too. These are tall boxes (as in about 6 1/2ft tall), but they don't take up much room. They do need at least a wall to the side or the rear to load them properly though as they're corner horns. Big bass performance from these cabinets. They're not the monitor flat, but have a very open sound. Even the versions for 6 1/2in drivers would work providing you chose the driver with care and got them loaded right in-room. You might need to add some series resistance though to prevent your amp from over-damping the drivers, which are fairly low Q.

If these are a bit too large for you, sticking with the single driver theme, you could look at buying Bob's FTA200 TL plans. This is a traditional, 6:1 reverse taper line for the mighty Fostex F200a. See Bob's site for more: http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/
Bob sells other plans, but this is likely to be the only one that might be able to fill a room your size, though I suspect it'd still be a struggle. FR drivers really do need horn loading to work in a big space.

Looking at 2 ways, I'd probably go for a Seas Thor kit. Thor is not entirely to my taste, but it should work very well in your room and with your amplifiers, as those magnesium coned drivers love a bit of current to tickle them. There's a few different versions of the cabinet too: Fat Thor, Small Thor, Short Thor etc., should you feel like trying a different enclosure. It's not a cheap kit, but nobody would deny that the components are of superb quality. If you like the clean, perfectly controlled monitor sound and value smooth precision and detail, this could be the way forward. Clobbers most commercial box speakers for about 1/2 the price, and beats most in that it's a TL, with all the advantages of smooth impedence and excellent damping these give. Bass is not as good as it could be (hence the alternative cabinets), but the original cabinet can be greatly improved by pulling the stuffing out of the last few inches of the line. It all depends how much you want to spend of course.

Hope some of this is of use
Scott



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