hi everyone,
as a pair of fe167e are on the way, I´ll load them with a BIB.
I wonder if placing the driver a little lower than is recomended in the zillapage would give any benefit, say around 40'' from the floor.
No quality ply available, so it's mdf or particle, which one?
last but not least, has anyone runned them with an unmodded
t-amp ?, is the rolled off bass of the t, enough to mess with the horn loading?
that´s all, thanks
hernan
as a pair of fe167e are on the way, I´ll load them with a BIB.
I wonder if placing the driver a little lower than is recomended in the zillapage would give any benefit, say around 40'' from the floor.
No quality ply available, so it's mdf or particle, which one?
last but not least, has anyone runned them with an unmodded
t-amp ?, is the rolled off bass of the t, enough to mess with the horn loading?
that´s all, thanks
hernan
An unmodified T won't go low enough (as I understand it) -you'll need to tweak it to prevent the amp rolling off below 100Hz or so.
Lowering the driver by 1/4 of an inch won't affect the response enought to cause problems (assuming a 68in tall cabinet it's 40.25in from the floor as suggested).
I've used MDF -worked fine for me. The internal baffle braces the sides so there is much less vibration than you'd normally get, though it would be a good plan to double the front baffle. For a tweak, try MDF front baffle and side panels, and a rear baffle and internal baffle using chipboard (particle board). That's what I'm going to try for my next pair anyway. Makes it a very inexpensive build too.
Lowering the driver by 1/4 of an inch won't affect the response enought to cause problems (assuming a 68in tall cabinet it's 40.25in from the floor as suggested).
I've used MDF -worked fine for me. The internal baffle braces the sides so there is much less vibration than you'd normally get, though it would be a good plan to double the front baffle. For a tweak, try MDF front baffle and side panels, and a rear baffle and internal baffle using chipboard (particle board). That's what I'm going to try for my next pair anyway. Makes it a very inexpensive build too.
I tried modelling the BIB for the FE167E using the dims posted at Zillaspeak but found the best frequency response was to have the driver at 29.5" down from the top rather than the 27.5" posted (a typo?). However I might be doing something wrong because I don't quite get the resp. shown for 27.5". [I'm using an E=0.2169 (or 29.5in), So=0.001, Sl=4.2662Sd (or mouth area of 87.75in2 with an advertised Sd of 132.7cm2)]. Hopefully Scottmoose can comment!
Use ML TQWT, not TL offset driver. Width is as per usual. So depth=0.125in, Sl depth = whatever necessary to get the correct terminus area you require. Vent length=0.0001in, vent diameter =terminus area / 3.1416^0.5 That'll get you the advertised response.
Some of the driver positions look a little unusual because I'm aiming for a particular shape below 100Hz. In the case of the 166E/167E/166ES-R I simply retained a standard cabinet rather than optimising for a specific driver so people could indulge themselves in a little driver rolling. In this throw-away day & age, I thought it might be both economical, and fun. If you use clip on tabs rather than soldering connections, you can swap out drivers for specific music or evenings for example. Just a thought.
I really should do a proper generic BIB at some point for those who fancy the ideal of driver-rolling on a wider scale.
Best
Scott
Some of the driver positions look a little unusual because I'm aiming for a particular shape below 100Hz. In the case of the 166E/167E/166ES-R I simply retained a standard cabinet rather than optimising for a specific driver so people could indulge themselves in a little driver rolling. In this throw-away day & age, I thought it might be both economical, and fun. If you use clip on tabs rather than soldering connections, you can swap out drivers for specific music or evenings for example. Just a thought.
I really should do a proper generic BIB at some point for those who fancy the ideal of driver-rolling on a wider scale.
Best
Scott
herpaw said:hi everyone,
as a pair of fe167e are on the way, I´ll load them with a BIB.
I wonder if placing the driver a little lower than is recomended in the zillapage would give any benefit, say around 40'' from the floor.
No quality ply available, so it's mdf or particle, which one?
last but not least, has anyone runned them with an unmodded
t-amp ?, is the rolled off bass of the t, enough to mess with the horn loading?
that´s all, thanks
hernan
would like to see the result, pictures when completed, I will be running mine with T-amp clone, amp6BASIC.
gychang
hi gychang
ok i'll put out some pictures when i'm done, maybe of the process too, the location of the driver will be the standard, i confused the Zdriver distance,(thought it was the distance from the center of the driver to the edge, then up to the top), and proposed a height that was almost the same as the suggested one.
I'll finally go cheap, chipboard BIB on the way!!!, with a MDF base.
ok i'll put out some pictures when i'm done, maybe of the process too, the location of the driver will be the standard, i confused the Zdriver distance,(thought it was the distance from the center of the driver to the edge, then up to the top), and proposed a height that was almost the same as the suggested one.
I'll finally go cheap, chipboard BIB on the way!!!, with a MDF base.
herpaw said:hi gychang
i confused the Zdriver distance,(thought it was the distance from the center of the driver to the edge, then up to the top), and proposed a height that was almost the same as the suggested one.
I'll finally go cheap, chipboard BIB on the way!!!, with a MDF base.
I will start my 2nd BIB for upstairs. my understanding of Zdriver distance is from the center of the speaker...
gychang
photo
ok here's a pic,
been listening for a while, the bass is big. The 167 seems a bit congested with voices, and soft and rolled off in the highs. maybe the closeness of the divider is muddying things.Put some carpet and polyester fiber behind it but im still not happy. Had to make an adapting plate for the driver to fit.
ok here's a pic,
been listening for a while, the bass is big. The 167 seems a bit congested with voices, and soft and rolled off in the highs. maybe the closeness of the divider is muddying things.Put some carpet and polyester fiber behind it but im still not happy. Had to make an adapting plate for the driver to fit.
Attachments
hi scott,
maybe I should wait a lilttle as you say. from the sealed end till nearly the top of the driver is filled with polyester fiber. Behind the driver and to both sides I sticked carpet. I was concerned that the drivers would not breath correctly with the added plate which gave the front baffle 27mm of depth. So i cut the hole in the plate with the 45° position in the jig.then placed the little baffle over the original hole and draw it. then cutted again at 45°, so the driver hole is expanding at 45° towards the back.I putted some poly fiber at the expansion too. at the botom of the speaker I placed some foam and that's it.
maybe I should wait a lilttle as you say. from the sealed end till nearly the top of the driver is filled with polyester fiber. Behind the driver and to both sides I sticked carpet. I was concerned that the drivers would not breath correctly with the added plate which gave the front baffle 27mm of depth. So i cut the hole in the plate with the 45° position in the jig.then placed the little baffle over the original hole and draw it. then cutted again at 45°, so the driver hole is expanding at 45° towards the back.I putted some poly fiber at the expansion too. at the botom of the speaker I placed some foam and that's it.
Attachments
Sounds about right. You baffle and hole-cutting logic is excellent. That shouldn't be causing any problems. As I say, give the drivers some time, and give them a good thrashing with material loaded with big dynamic swings.
If they're still not improving, my suspision is that you might have overdone the damping. The problems you describe don't sound to me like you've got reflection issues back through the cone. Conjested is not how they should sound!
Once the drivers are fully run-in, and if it's still not sounding right, my first tweak would first be to adjust the damping in one cabinet, and compare the two. Start with the foam: remove, and see what happens. Lynn Olson hates foam, he thinks it's a killer of musical life, in his Ariel's at least. I can't pass comment myself, as I've never used it, but something different at some point in the future might be a plan. Don't add any replacement for the moment however.
After the foam, try removing some of the damping material above or around the driver. It's a juggling act, but have patience & you should get there. Let us know if we can help.
Regards
Scott
If they're still not improving, my suspision is that you might have overdone the damping. The problems you describe don't sound to me like you've got reflection issues back through the cone. Conjested is not how they should sound!
Once the drivers are fully run-in, and if it's still not sounding right, my first tweak would first be to adjust the damping in one cabinet, and compare the two. Start with the foam: remove, and see what happens. Lynn Olson hates foam, he thinks it's a killer of musical life, in his Ariel's at least. I can't pass comment myself, as I've never used it, but something different at some point in the future might be a plan. Don't add any replacement for the moment however.
After the foam, try removing some of the damping material above or around the driver. It's a juggling act, but have patience & you should get there. Let us know if we can help.
Regards
Scott
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