TABAQ TL for Tangband

Delta = 20*log(D port / D woofer)

is the same as

Delta=10*log(D port / D woofer)^2

This is what happens when you start to doubt yourself!

The formula in the first post I've derived on a piece of paper myself. Then, yesterday, while measuring my new speaker (check out the time of yesterday's post:confused: ) I checked it in the book and all I saw was a different formula.

Obviously, they are mathematically the same. The way it's written in the first post makes more sense from the Physics point of view though. Thanks for giving self-confidence back to me, Henkjan!

Sorry again for confusions,

VadimB
 
Slightly modded TABAQ's

Hi Bjorn,

Thankyou for posting your plans so well on pdf. This was my second diy project; the well explained theory and construction was appreciated.

I took the liberty of making the TABAQ's that I constructed 30 cm's taller, with a false bottom filled with sand to raise the drivers to ear level. Also, I used 18 mm birch ply in place of the 12 mm increasing the dims accordingly. The driver is the TB W3 315d that was available at PartsExpress. Nice driver with cast aluminum frame. Just finished them this afternoon and currently letting the drivers run in for a while. They already sound excellent.

Here's some pics of construction:
 

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John Tee,

I did the same idea with a BIB.

And for some time I've been looking at the TABAQ for use with
a pair of WS 871's.

My observation is on the stuffing. Doesn't such quantity muffle
the backwave output significantly? Several treatments I have done
with the WS 871 have not been satisfactory.

I will look forward to your reactions to the new build.
 
Hi Ken,

thanks for the nice words :)

JonTee, I like your false bottom. I have done som simulations to see if I could make a taller version of TABAQ, but has no solution yet.

My idea was to mount the cabinet on the wall with a light bulb between the cabinet and the wall. I have done this with other contructions and it looks very nice.

loninappleton, the stuffing density is high, which is neccesary for the 3" TB drivers as they have a very high Qts. If you put your ear to the opening, you will hear that the sound is not killed at all.

Hi from Bjorn
 
Hi Lon,

"My observation is on the stuffing. Doesn't such quantity muffle"

I tried the speakers without stuffing and the bass output went down to my ears. Also they were peaky sounding. Using the stuffing appeared to me to bring back the bass and smoothed out the response. I know what you mean about the stuffing "muffling" as my 1st project was the Cyburg Needles (with the W3 871's) which I originally had put to much stuffing in, and that did attenuate the sound to the point of making them sound nasally. After lightening up the stuffed front chamber the sound improved dramatically. On TABAQ I have left the top unglued (weighted down presently), so I can adjust the stuffing if necessary (I did weigh it as close as I could get to .23 lbs.).

"I have done som simulations to see if I could make a taller version of TABAQ, but has no solution yet."

Bjorn, where do the simulations show alterations in the TABAQ's performance when they are made taller, or the port raised up from the floor? Just curious. At some point I will get the software and equipment necessary, to measure these responses, however, presently measurements will be made subjectively with our older ears (wife and I) and younger family members when they visit.

In addition, the sand in the false bottom seems to be necessary, as bass response was less and more cabinet resonance was noticed when the chamber was left empty (cabinet clamped up for subjective test).

I hope to have the speakers inside (presently in my garage) today and will post some impressions.

Jon
 
Hi Jon, I appreciate your interest.

I did not keep copies of the alternate TABAQ designs, but the enclosure alternatives I tried had problems withuneven reponse.

I did not try to move the opening, however.

Please note that TABAQ is just a straight, mass loaded TL. Instead of using a tube as port like in a bass reflex, the port is an integrated part of the cabinet.

The volume is quite big compared to the driver. This was done to increase the bass performance and thereby compensate for the hard stuffing which of course attenaute the contribution from the opening.


Remember to use the BSC with TABAQ, by the way. I use 1.0 mH in parallel with 3.9 ohm. These values was found using Martin J King´s software, and it sure makes the speaker more ear-friendly.

I would recomend you got hold of Martin J King´s software, so you can go further with the design.

I have some other design ideas with the TB drivers, using a coupling chamber and a sort of tapered line. This works well in my subs at home, simualations will show if it also can be used for full range speakers.

Looking forward to your feed back, both the negative and the positive issues.
;)

Hi from Bjorn
 
I used the BSC as I found that the designs I have used so far, the TABAQ and C. Needle, need them for even response.

I spent yesterday morning playing different music choices jazz, rock, some classical. I am happy to say that I like the TABAQ's presentation (balance and clarity) and believe the performance goals were met with Bjorn's design.

Originally I thought I would do a comparison to the Needles I built and the TABAQ but they are two different animals. Different drivers, cabinet materials used, BSC, etc. Where they are similar is they both use a 3" full range driver and both perform very well. Any preference for one or the other would be purely subjective.

The TABAQ I built uses the Tangband W3-315D driver available thru Parts Express. It is different from the W3-871S driver in several ways. The 315D uses a aluminum cast frame and a aluminum-magnesium cone while the 871S has stamped steel frame and paper cone (painted silver). Although performance specs are similar (they both spec at 87dB watt/mtr) the 315D seems more efficient with a more forward midrange.

The TABAQ/315D combination is about clarity from top to bottom. Bass is presented in clearly defined notes (no fuzziness); I did not test for how low the bass goes (couldn't find my test cd) but I believe it meets the design goal of 55 Hz.

The mids of the TABAQ/315d are forward and very clear. The 315D is a very fast little driver. I originally had Martin Logan electrostats (now sold) and the TABAQ 315D is equal to the speed and clarity of the stats IMO. Instruments are clearly defined and separate from one another, voices are in the room with the listener. I listened to some cd's that I have heard probably 100 times over the years and was surprised to hear sounds, instruments and background noises, that I had not heard before.

Where the TABAQ/315D exceeds my old electrostats is in the treble range where the high notes are again clearly defined, and more apparent.

Sound staging and imagery, as with the Cyburg Needles, is a forte of these designs. The TABAQ seemed to cast a wider stage, beyond the outer boundry of the speakers and more air. which I have not experienced with other speakers I have tried in this room.

This combination of the TABAQ to me would be great with a small tube amp such as the Almarro EL-84 single ended pentode are a small push pull such as a modded Magnavox 6v6 (wish I had not sold mine now:( ). The stock Trends T-amp, that I used for this audition, is very good with these speakers also, and I would expect a modded T-amp to be even better.

Some additional information for those who use subs, I tried my sub set at 80 Hz (as low as the setting goes on this sub) and low gain with great results. The TABAQ blends really well and the sub is not noticeable as it should not be. Personally, the TABAQ was fine without the sub for music.

I will try the alternate BSC suggested by Bjorn for further attenuation of the midrange (need to get the inductors) and will report back any differences in presentation.

As Solve said, they are a easy build so I intend to try some 4.5 inch in the future.

Jon
 
Bjohannesen said:
Remember to use the BSC with TABAQ, by the way. I use 1.0 mH in parallel with 3.9 ohm. These values was found using Martin J King´s software, and it sure makes the speaker more ear-friendly.

Hi,
what are the filter parameters for these components? I.e., corner frequency and attenuation, maybe Q and such?

I was thinking to make a digital version of the BSC.
 
abiedoodles said:
i think im going to build this as my first speaker project, looks easy to build,but im choosing between these two drivers Tangband W3-315D and 871S from partsexpress.com ,for those who built it which is better? im going to use it with my amp6.
the 315 has for my ears too much highs, too sharp. good detail, but I can't listen to them for more than 15 minutes.
 
Re: Filters for the W3-871S

Svein_B said:

Bjohannesen is suggesting a traditional BSC filter for the TABAQ. This will attenuate everything above about 1.3 KHz by a few dB.

Cyburgs Needle : 0.56mH, 6.8uF, 6.8ohm (fo=2.6KHz)


SveinB


Let me understand this clearly, I am considering TABAQ cabinet with W3-871S speakers, can the same notch filter as the Needle be used?

thanks,

gychang
 
gychang said:

Originally posted by Solve
This is the best-easybuilt speaker with Tangband W3-871 or
Period!



Just build it and listen!!
Im the only one?

Solve

anyone have opinion whether this is better than the needles?

gychang


one line missing in the quote...

"This is the best-easybuilt speaker with Tangband W3-871 or
like mine W4-1320!
Period!"

W4-1320 i running with BSC 0,8 mh and 3,8 ohm.
Sounds VERY dynamic and good.
Twice as expensive.
But realy worth it!
W3-871 is an good speaker but dont stop there!
Just my thought with comparasition.

Solve
 
Re: Re: Filters for the W3-871S

gychang said:
Let me understand this clearly, I am considering TABAQ cabinet with W3-871S speakers, can the same notch filter as the Needle be used?

thanks,

gychang

I believe it should work fine.

Compared to Bjohannesen's BSC filter it will give less attenuation of the higher frequencies. This could be an advantage if listening a little off-axis.

SveinB.