Projects for FE108eS/FE126

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Rafal said:
About that "Fostex midrange magic" ...

It is hard to beat the FE108eS, modded FE127e & FE126e are not far behind, and even stock they are quite good. FE167 to a lesser extent. My experience with the bigger drivers is less extensive, but my generally feeling at this point is that they give up mids & tops in a quest for lower bass and higher efficiency.

I'm working to see how much i can extract out of FE167 & a 207 + foster bullet project is in the wings.

dave
 
planet10 said:


It is hard to beat the FE108eS, modded FE127e & FE126e are not far behind, and even stock they are quite good. FE167 to a lesser extent. My experience with the bigger drivers is less extensive, but my generally feeling at this point is that they give up mids & tops in a quest for lower bass and higher efficiency.

I'm working to see how much i can extract out of FE167 & a 207 + foster bullet project is in the wings.

dave

Dave,

What enclosure would you recommend for the FE108ES or FE127e & FE126e ? What would be the ultimate in achieving a full range? I am thinking probably some kind of horn, but I'm not sure which would be best.

Cheers,

Rafal
 
Rafal - having built all of the designs listed below (in some cases several pairs of each during the prototyping & refinement process), allow me to offer my observations. I'm sure Dave will add his own comments.


FE126:
1) Ron Clarke's A126 - not yet having built the "Spawn/Moosehorn" or the Metronome, I'd have to nominate this design as squeezing the last ounce of peformance from this driver - although with the supra-baffle and rear deflector the WAF isn't great. (c'est la vie!)
2) Frugelhorn
3) Buschorn MkI (not MKII) - modified of course to fit larger driver than original 83mm.


FE127:

1) best bang for the buck in a small non-horn box- monopole Fonken ( I've yet to build a bipole version)
2) easier build, but not quite the performance - monopole DIY reference MLTL
3) still very simple build (just more material) but much better performer in the right room - bipole MLTL
4) Tom Zurkowski's PAWO - just don't use MDF - wonderful in laminated bamboo/baltic birch plywood if your materials budget will allow

the above ordering could change if I ever get to build/hear a pair of the Spawns or 'gnomes.

saving the best for last :angel: if you can adjust to the "shortcomings" of the FE108ES - with a little tweaking (i.e. volume reduction) of CC, they work very well in most of the same designs as the FE126e


Just remember that any of the bipole or horn designs are far more room sensitive than most monopole sealed or BR boxes.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Rafal said:
What enclosure would you recommend for the FE108ES or FE127e & FE126e ? What would be the ultimate in achieving a full range? I am thinking probably some kind of horn, but I'm not sure which would be best.

For the 108 & 126, If you have corners the Frugel-Horn, if just walls then the RonHorn A126.

For the 127 either Fonkens or the PAWO. In the PAWO you have to be careful about early bounce off the back wall. Our mules (BB with an MDF back & no suprabaffle, shoe just a bit of this, the bamboo ply with BB back and a suprabaffle which effectily moves the driver about 30 mm further away from the back wall, did not suffer and sounded noticably better.

The diyAudio 127 ref ML-TL is the easiest build, sounds good, but the bass is a bit wooley in comparison to the Fonken.

Any of the 127 boxes, i suspect, with a treated driver will surpass and of the other boxes with a stock driver. 126s deserve treatment too. I haven't played with enough 108s to know whether they can be gilded.

dave
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Rafal said:
The FE126 sounds like a nice driver. how does it compare to Fe108es especially in the bass department. I would think it can go lower and a back loaded horn can help even further. Is that right?

Better bass, more efficiency. Rougher sounding than the 108eS (not many drivers have the FE108eS finese in the mids). Treatment takes away the roughness, but they still don't have the 108eS finese, but it is a horse-race and room, amp, and listening style will all factor into which is best in any particular system/

dave
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Rafal said:
Can you guys point me to the final design (and reviews) of the Ronhorn A126?

Attached is a pdf that includes all the pdfs that are in the Full-Range gallery. This isn't the most up-to-date version -- that i believe only existed on the gainclone forum which is gone now. i have the picture saved ... it is low rez (but still big). Most of the info can be picked out of the pdf and then tweaked -- CC & suprabaffle i believe are the changes.

It is my intention to eventually redo the docs to the same level as the (still unfinished) Frugel-Horn docs.

And on another note, how would the sound be of a Ronhorn A126 (with modded Fe126 driver) vs. Visaton b200 OB?

Visatons going under the knife later today, a comparison coming up... on 1st blush i'd say both are quite good, but not the same...

dave
 

Attachments

  • ronhorn-austin-a126.pdf
    41 KB · Views: 325
Dave,

I have a few of questions re. ronhorn A126 plans.

First, what is this thing behind the horn? Is is a cylinder or a rectangle and is it really neccesary?

Second, What are the drawings of in the top right corner? I'm not sure where that bit goes.

Third, The CC ( compression chamber I assume, ) has a styrofoam cylinder. Is that made to reduce the CC to acommodate the FE108 ES?

Fourth,

Can the baffle have circular instead of the rectangular shape with the same results? If so, what would be the diameter? I think circular shape would look nicer.

Thanks,

Cheers

Rafal
 
Thanks Dave.

Ron,

My apologies. I knew the original design was yours but I didn't know that the latest revision was also your creation. I didn't mean to take away your rightly due credit.

I am very intrigued by this design (I always wanted to make a pair of horns) and I'm thinking of making them with modded fe126 (from Dave) or FE108ES. I am kind of leaning towards the FE108es because I have heard that it has more finnesse, and I read that the A126 horn can be modified for the FE108es. I was wondering, would you recommend that or are you planning a dedicated FE108es horn and I should just wait for that design (and in the mean time use FE126 for the A126 design?)

Also, to make the A126 horn with a bit more WAF factor, would it be ok to extend the fromt baffle all the way to the floor? I think the half circular top with a rectangular bottom extended to the floor would look pretty cool (kid of like a big "D" turned on it's back.
 
Rafal said:
Thanks Dave.

Ron,

My apologies. I knew the original design was yours but I didn't know that the latest revision was also your creation. I didn't mean to take away your rightly due credit.

I am very intrigued by this design (I always wanted to make a pair of horns) and I'm thinking of making them with modded fe126 (from Dave) or FE108ES. I am kind of leaning towards the FE108es because I have heard that it has more finnesse, and I read that the A126 horn can be modified for the FE108es. I was wondering, would you recommend that or are you planning a dedicated FE108es horn and I should just wait for that design (and in the mean time use FE126 for the A126 design?)

Also, to make the A126 horn with a bit more WAF factor, would it be ok to extend the fromt baffle all the way to the floor? I think the half circular top with a rectangular bottom extended to the floor would look pretty cool (kid of like a big "D" turned on it's back.

Rafal -
let me jump in here again vis a vis the 108/126 question - Dave's treatment to the 126 makes a huge improvement in the midrange smoothness / finesse - and with its already extended bass response and higher sensitivity, it makes for very impressive performance in the A126 horn.

In a smaller room 400ft^2 or less, I'd recommend the 108's with a corner load (possibly even a smaller enclosure*) - larger than that and I think most folks would take the 126. In either case, you should definitely plan on the supra baffle and rear deflector - they are a significant part of the system design. I fabricated a pair of slip-on baffles for the A126 for the specific purpsoe of demonstrating their effectiveness.

* in my 200ft^2 listening room, the A126 with either driver actually overloads the room, but they sound spectacular in Dave's much bigger room. The Frugels are a much better match for me - I don't dare try Scottmoose's double horns


There's only a millimeter or two difference in the baffle opening size between the 108 / 126, but the screw mounting holes don't line up. (I guess they hadn't anticipated Ed Schilling's upgrade :cannotbe: ) so if you start with 126 and switch to 108's later, be prepared to fill or somehow cover the orginal 4 holes.
 
Well, they certainly come alive in larger rooms. I'd say Steve's, where we recently had a bit of a speaker & amplifier bash, is about 250ft^2 and they worked very nicely in that, though obviously they couldn't produce the SPLs and weight of the 8in units. Still an impressive amount of grunt for a small driver though. Walk around soundstage -literally; we actually did walk around it with a Loreena McKennitt album. Solid to 40Hz. I'm looking forward to hearing them alongside the Frugelhorns at Eggfest 4 in November.
 
First, what is this thing behind the horn? Is is a cylinder or a rectangle and is it really neccesary?

I included it as an adjustable CC volume. Dave says the 108 will work in the A126 then he must be right. I never simmed it for the 108. The divider in place is for the 108 applications, the divider removed is for the 126 applications.
The rear deflector shown is an option for the normal 45 degree deflector and is tuned for an 80 hz horn action. It will provide for a much smoother TL to horn action, however it will require a greater mass loading as there is more energy spread out over a greater support area. This was designed to be moved a slightly greater distance from a back wall.
ron

( actually i have never heard the Fostex Fe126, i am still working off my current programming)

I didn't mean to take away your rightly due credit.
I couldnt care less. Its all about achieving a goal and whoever is around and needs the credit, let them have it . All i accept is the challenge.
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.