I think there was a time when they were being hyped as the best thing since sliced bread, so people were buying them up and putting them in very poorly designed enclosures. Without the proper frequency compensation, the 206 will sound shrill in a simple vented cabinet.nkg said:
I very much enjoy my pair of FE207E.
nkg,
Thanks for the positive feedback and public recognition. I agree with you that the FE-206E is a good choice for this type of design with a BSC circuit to rebalance the SPL response. People do get concerned about the loss of some efficiency and the design does fly against the accepted thinking on low Qts drivers, but the bottom line is it can work very well if you have a little extra power in the amplifier. I really like my low Qts Lowther drivers in the same size ML TL enclosure so I have no doubt the FE-206E will also yield excellent results. A friend of mine built a pair and the first time his wife heard one of her favorite singers performing her favorite songs he swore she had tears in her eyes.
Thanks for the positive feedback and public recognition. I agree with you that the FE-206E is a good choice for this type of design with a BSC circuit to rebalance the SPL response. People do get concerned about the loss of some efficiency and the design does fly against the accepted thinking on low Qts drivers, but the bottom line is it can work very well if you have a little extra power in the amplifier. I really like my low Qts Lowther drivers in the same size ML TL enclosure so I have no doubt the FE-206E will also yield excellent results. A friend of mine built a pair and the first time his wife heard one of her favorite singers performing her favorite songs he swore she had tears in her eyes.
Hi ,
I have built these speakers (Project 5) with Fostex Fe206E. I have some mixed feelings about it. Love and hate at the same time.
There are some things be taken into account when building those ML TL with Fe 206 E.
If you have a low-powered tube amp, or a T-amp, this enclosure just won't do it. After a heavy BSC (which is a must), it will run out of steam too early. Ok, it will still be possible to enjoy some chillout music at a moderate volume, but forget about rock or Drum&base.
On the other hand, this speaker will sound quite good with high-power solid state amps. But it won't posses the midrange magic of tubes and will sound a bit harder and colder.
So, if you have a tube amp and Fostex FE206, don't build this enclosure. You will need a horn.
But, if you are comfortable with the sound of high-powered solid state amps (which I am not), this enclosure/speaker combination will sound better than some multi-way speakers, at a lower cost..
Best regards,
Vix
I have built these speakers (Project 5) with Fostex Fe206E. I have some mixed feelings about it. Love and hate at the same time.
There are some things be taken into account when building those ML TL with Fe 206 E.
If you have a low-powered tube amp, or a T-amp, this enclosure just won't do it. After a heavy BSC (which is a must), it will run out of steam too early. Ok, it will still be possible to enjoy some chillout music at a moderate volume, but forget about rock or Drum&base.
On the other hand, this speaker will sound quite good with high-power solid state amps. But it won't posses the midrange magic of tubes and will sound a bit harder and colder.
So, if you have a tube amp and Fostex FE206, don't build this enclosure. You will need a horn.
But, if you are comfortable with the sound of high-powered solid state amps (which I am not), this enclosure/speaker combination will sound better than some multi-way speakers, at a lower cost..
Best regards,
Vix
That's my only concern with the 206 in a resonant cabinet. It will work superbly, but because of it's very low Q (lower than most Lowthers) it needs more resistive correction, requiring more grunt from the amplifier, unless, of course, you run digital Eq, in which case you're laughing. Martin's cabinet design is superb -I've build 3 pairs, and a wide baffle variation over the last 2 1/2 years and enjoyed every second I've spent listening to them.
I don't disagree with the comments concerning the low powered tube amp. When you buy into low powered tube amps, you are also placing a significant restriction on the type of drivers and enclosure designs you can consider. The tube amp and the speakers become a system that need to be matched carefully. Speaker efficiency and the amp running out of gas are primary concerns. This is much more difficult combination to get right.
With respect to T-amps, I used a pair of unmodified TEAC amps for a while and found the rated 8 watts sufficient for my Lowther ML TL enclosures. While I liked the midrange very much I found that the bass appeared to be rolled off somewhat by the amp, but power was not really an issue. I abandoned these and went back to SS amps.
The few negative comments I have recieved about my enclosure designs have primarily come from low powered tube amp users. Some of the tube amps just don't match up well with speakers that use a BSC filter.
With respect to T-amps, I used a pair of unmodified TEAC amps for a while and found the rated 8 watts sufficient for my Lowther ML TL enclosures. While I liked the midrange very much I found that the bass appeared to be rolled off somewhat by the amp, but power was not really an issue. I abandoned these and went back to SS amps.
The few negative comments I have recieved about my enclosure designs have primarily come from low powered tube amp users. Some of the tube amps just don't match up well with speakers that use a BSC filter.
I use a pair FE206E from 150hz and up in my huge 2 way speakers (approx 5000l cabinet shared by all 4 drivers).
I used to drive them using a lm3886, which sounded pretty good (to me anyway).
Then I built a F1 and used the BSC describe by mr Pass. The difference was like night and day, the F1 really makes the FE206E sing.
If I hade to make a smaller system, I would go for a FE2006E in a horn and a F1 to drive them.
I used to drive them using a lm3886, which sounded pretty good (to me anyway).
Then I built a F1 and used the BSC describe by mr Pass. The difference was like night and day, the F1 really makes the FE206E sing.
If I hade to make a smaller system, I would go for a FE2006E in a horn and a F1 to drive them.
Im running the speakers from a ss amp at the moment. I have a 30watt per channel el34 thats almost finished a 2A3 single ended thats 25% finished and some VT104's for a later project .Running out of puff is not a really a problem as I live in small flat in a block of 60 most of the people around me are 60 plus and I dont really play any rock & roll. I like the sound of both ss and valve amps both are good for different sorts of music.
I have never built MKs MLTL me being a horn nut. However i have run several sims on my programming and yes more watts avaliable is a must with the added BSC and damping of higher frequencies and loss of efficency.
On the 206. Its a good driver for the price, but without phase plugs and some mods to the driver i find it in its stock form unacceptable.
I had the 206 in my original Dallas design and have switched over to the 208 sigma and a ribbon tweet and found it to be a much easier combo to live with.
An Austin adapatation to the 206 would be a good application and would get very near to the MLTL performance in the LF response but would still be a more difficult build than the MLTL.
Conclusion: If you need more efficency with a lower powered amp with a low Qts driver then a properly designed BLH is necessary. The horn would provide a greater dynamic range, but would be a more difficult build.
All depends on the amount of involvement that you are willing ti accept for a given performance with a given amp.
ron
On the 206. Its a good driver for the price, but without phase plugs and some mods to the driver i find it in its stock form unacceptable.
I had the 206 in my original Dallas design and have switched over to the 208 sigma and a ribbon tweet and found it to be a much easier combo to live with.
An Austin adapatation to the 206 would be a good application and would get very near to the MLTL performance in the LF response but would still be a more difficult build than the MLTL.
Conclusion: If you need more efficency with a lower powered amp with a low Qts driver then a properly designed BLH is necessary. The horn would provide a greater dynamic range, but would be a more difficult build.
All depends on the amount of involvement that you are willing ti accept for a given performance with a given amp.
ron
horns
An alternative to the FE206E is the AN8",
an amp with 2 Watt is enough for normal
listening in room around 20-30 sqm.
look these examples:
http://www.hm-moreart.de/70.htm
An alternative to the FE206E is the AN8",
an amp with 2 Watt is enough for normal
listening in room around 20-30 sqm.
look these examples:
http://www.hm-moreart.de/70.htm
gotta agree...
with the previous poster that a BLH is a must for this driver, uncorrected. other than digital EQ, I have personally not heard a BSC circuit that did not suck the life out of this driver regardless of amplification. even digital EQ can get a little tricky. granted, I have never heard a REALLY well setup BSC system. the big drivers SCREAM for highly refined amps. SS is refined enough to power such a sensitive driver few and far between. if there is no soul in your amp, the big drivers are dynamically microscopic enough to let you see those sand particles... honestly powerful SS (by my estimation what it takes to deal with a BSC circuit) even fewer and scarcer. why would one use such a super crazy SS amp which might cost a fortune along with expensive crossover network when you can build a ~ 300 dollar sex amp or something and get good tone out of an 160 dollar pair of drivers in a 400 dollar (in wood) BLH cabinet (albiet with a few weeks of build time...)? we need an electronic plywood cutting service here in the US. ship us flat panels by god, and we can get the rest done.
sometimes there are virtues with staying on the cheap money wise and applying lots of effort and acoustic tweaking to make up for it.
while I love speakers with flat frequency response, I have ended up arriving at the notion that if it is really that important to me, that I would stick with a driver with flatness as a natural virtue...like the smaller ones.
the big stuff has its own set of addictive virtues. rarely flat frequency response or good dispersion or low cost or small size or ability to be used without a helper tweeter, etc. they do give REALISM though, which is something which is simply addictive to me. enough of a virtue to warrant all the added hassle. they also ive us the priviledge of using super low powered amps, which are beasts unto themselves.
the 206e is a beast...meant for big tasks and large rooms. it has a beautiful voice.
I love it.
I encourage others to play with it. if you are not happy with it as a hifi speaker, you can always use it in a PA system...like mine... this is a terry cain custom design. 120db spl off of 150 watts per channel. NO distortion... I don't even wanna know what it would do with pro amps in an array, etc... my neighbors sure don't.
Clark
with the previous poster that a BLH is a must for this driver, uncorrected. other than digital EQ, I have personally not heard a BSC circuit that did not suck the life out of this driver regardless of amplification. even digital EQ can get a little tricky. granted, I have never heard a REALLY well setup BSC system. the big drivers SCREAM for highly refined amps. SS is refined enough to power such a sensitive driver few and far between. if there is no soul in your amp, the big drivers are dynamically microscopic enough to let you see those sand particles... honestly powerful SS (by my estimation what it takes to deal with a BSC circuit) even fewer and scarcer. why would one use such a super crazy SS amp which might cost a fortune along with expensive crossover network when you can build a ~ 300 dollar sex amp or something and get good tone out of an 160 dollar pair of drivers in a 400 dollar (in wood) BLH cabinet (albiet with a few weeks of build time...)? we need an electronic plywood cutting service here in the US. ship us flat panels by god, and we can get the rest done.
sometimes there are virtues with staying on the cheap money wise and applying lots of effort and acoustic tweaking to make up for it.
while I love speakers with flat frequency response, I have ended up arriving at the notion that if it is really that important to me, that I would stick with a driver with flatness as a natural virtue...like the smaller ones.
the big stuff has its own set of addictive virtues. rarely flat frequency response or good dispersion or low cost or small size or ability to be used without a helper tweeter, etc. they do give REALISM though, which is something which is simply addictive to me. enough of a virtue to warrant all the added hassle. they also ive us the priviledge of using super low powered amps, which are beasts unto themselves.
the 206e is a beast...meant for big tasks and large rooms. it has a beautiful voice.
I love it.
I encourage others to play with it. if you are not happy with it as a hifi speaker, you can always use it in a PA system...like mine... this is a terry cain custom design. 120db spl off of 150 watts per channel. NO distortion... I don't even wanna know what it would do with pro amps in an array, etc... my neighbors sure don't.
Clark
Attachments
Hi all,
I´m listening the FE206E in my horns powered by Firstwatt F1 clone (Nelson Pass). The sound is absolutely marvelous with a deep bass.
A few pics about building under: http://www.acaudio.de/html/horn.html
Best Regards,
Adam
I´m listening the FE206E in my horns powered by Firstwatt F1 clone (Nelson Pass). The sound is absolutely marvelous with a deep bass.
A few pics about building under: http://www.acaudio.de/html/horn.html
Best Regards,
Adam
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
the whole point...
Ive not heard a really well set up bsc system.
meaning that I have heard many, and none have really impressed me. I keep the dialogue open by saying that I have never heard a really good one just to leave the possibility open that they do exist, as i am sure they do... I listened to these systems, like all the stereo listening I do using no prior judgement before listening to them. something just seemed "off" with all of them. in the same way the uneven frequency rresponse sounds a little off. but more off. more of a tradeoff. to MY ears.
I do understand why some people would want a BSC circuit and find it to be unirritating. just apparently not my cup of tea at this stage in my audio hobby...
the measurement was taken
9 feet away, using real musical material. fatboy slim "everyone needs a 303" in fact. of course, I measured it with other peices as well. radio shack spl meter. in my apartment, with the system in the picture. in fact I took the measurement 2 minutes after I took that picture. 120 max. 115 average with no distortion. above that, the amplifiers (old yamaha receivers) was obviously distorting and loosing pace.
everyone who heard this system, all the sound and lights guys from around campus, my boss at the local symphony hall, etc, could not beleive what was taking place. it really goes against most held theories in PA stuff from what I can tell from modest research.
Clark
Ive not heard a really well set up bsc system.
meaning that I have heard many, and none have really impressed me. I keep the dialogue open by saying that I have never heard a really good one just to leave the possibility open that they do exist, as i am sure they do... I listened to these systems, like all the stereo listening I do using no prior judgement before listening to them. something just seemed "off" with all of them. in the same way the uneven frequency rresponse sounds a little off. but more off. more of a tradeoff. to MY ears.
I do understand why some people would want a BSC circuit and find it to be unirritating. just apparently not my cup of tea at this stage in my audio hobby...
the measurement was taken
9 feet away, using real musical material. fatboy slim "everyone needs a 303" in fact. of course, I measured it with other peices as well. radio shack spl meter. in my apartment, with the system in the picture. in fact I took the measurement 2 minutes after I took that picture. 120 max. 115 average with no distortion. above that, the amplifiers (old yamaha receivers) was obviously distorting and loosing pace.
everyone who heard this system, all the sound and lights guys from around campus, my boss at the local symphony hall, etc, could not beleive what was taking place. it really goes against most held theories in PA stuff from what I can tell from modest research.
Clark
not on the 206e, but the 127e. it is nice.
not a design for the "purist" but i am not necessarily one of those. it really does help alot of the problems associated with sound reproduction in general.
I still tend towards the BLH thing, as I like the color, and the weird (and addictive) bass, especially with these big drivers.
Clark
not a design for the "purist" but i am not necessarily one of those. it really does help alot of the problems associated with sound reproduction in general.
I still tend towards the BLH thing, as I like the color, and the weird (and addictive) bass, especially with these big drivers.
Clark
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