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Old 19th September 2006, 03:16 AM   #11
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
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Ok
i am seriously looking at the Fostex FF125K 4.5 FULL RANGE

it's cheap ( 55$ each at solen )

could probably place 5 of each on each side ?
what do you guys think ?

maybe 4 each side would be enough ?



Dave what do you think about 4 of theese on each side for a simple setup
and a shiva + 300W kit for bottom support?

the 4.5" drivers would allow me to have a not too wide
front baffle ..and the colors would fit nicely on their wall i think!!!
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Old 19th September 2006, 03:22 AM   #12
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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use the aprox 75 watt amp for 1 driver each side and the 300 watt amp filtered above say 300-500hz for the other drivers and it'll sound great I think....

And as I placed a link for before, filtering can be quite simple and cheap, resistor in series, cap parallel in the line feed to the 300 watt amp and you're there! That's what I did and I'm quite satisfied...

marchand(high-end brand) uses similar technique in:
http://www.marchandelec.com/xm46.html
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Old 19th September 2006, 03:33 AM   #13
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
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this is a bit too much for this project
but PLEASE

do instruct me !!

Please give me more details on the filtering method
you are pointing to ..

i do not have nay knowledge about that,
and what it should do ??

is this used when using drivers in arrays ?
this is for limiting comb filtering effects?


If you could suggest anything ..
i will probably buy 8 Fostex drivers

as their efficiency is reasonnably ( 92db )
and the look /price is there also

what could i do to enhanced?

i have no time for custom amplification

i will either use my Bryston 2B that i will sell to them
OR a good quality receiver amplification
( probably in the 75W/channel also )

thought i'd prefer the Bryston ( could buy a less expensive receiver , be at the same total $$ and have way better sonics from the Bryston .. )

please advise ...
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Old 19th September 2006, 10:27 AM   #14
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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I thought you allready had the receiver, the method of filtering I suggested requires 4 channels of amplification to get stereo(bi-amped).

Two channels will be filtered (driving up to 300 to 500 hz, where comb filtering effects won't bother the soundquality much) and two won't be filtered at all driving in full range mode... so you get 3 drivers each side producing mainly bass, and one each side producing full spectrum.

I use an incredibly good sounding amp from audiodigit(4 times 50 watt cont. power) which is relatively cheap and built and tested(only needs to be installed in a box)
http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=91

My filter consists out of 1 resistor in series(6.8k ohm) and one mkt capacitor(150nF) to ground to get a 6db/oct. slope at approx 250 hz.... larger values will generally lower cut-off freq. smaller values will make it higher...and since your speakers are very near to eachother 6 db slopes will work just fine...and the comment on amplifier impedance you don't have to account with very much, since you're doiong a custom job, buy a few values and experiment what sounds best to your taste....
This filter is between the source(or preamp) and the power amp... the link one more time:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/f...ssiveHLxo.html

To make it work this way you can also buy two stereo amps...
Or buy one new and use one you allready have or something, the bass driving amp doesn't have to be excellent quality as long as it has plenty of power...
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Old 19th September 2006, 12:38 PM   #15
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
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nice setup!

what kind of improvements to sound have you noticed with this method ?
have you done an AB testing for that method ?

do you think that it would be wise to do this from a
home thater receiver output ??
not sure that it would handle the load good,
but i'd need a receiver in wich we would use 4 outputs for the same signal ... ( i guess that pretty much all of em have quad stereo mode ..neway )


i am always amazed by the class-D advanced ...
this type of amp seriously brings affordable performance to any diy enthousiast!!!!!
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Old 19th September 2006, 02:21 PM   #16
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
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i called solen
they don't ahve enough fostex in stock for me

i was recommended a cheaper unit
smaller
but that seems more suited ( high qts of .88 )
for my application

VeraVox 3



P/N Size VC Type dB W Z Re Le Ce Fs Vas Qms Qes Qts Xmax Cutout

VERAVOX3 79mm 25mm Pape Cone 85 10 8 5.4 .17 5.6 107 1.1 7.2 1.0 .88 1 69

what do you guys think ?
the price is reallly good
could afford to pu ALOT
of those ..but it's only 85db efficient

is that high QTS good for that application ?

keep in mind that the setup would put all the drivers in and infinite baffle kinda way ...

the look sure is good enough neway!
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Old 19th September 2006, 02:40 PM   #17
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
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thanks all very much

my time is out already ..i have too much to do
so ...

i've placed the order at solen
for 16 VeraVOX3




hihi

i'll give you all feedback on how it went and final sonic qualities
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Old 19th September 2006, 04:04 PM   #18
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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you can use a surround receiver only when it has a 5.1 analog input section(with 6 rca-inputs for each channel) this way you could connect 3 stereo speaker pairs filtered as I explained, and maybe even let 4 drivers produce up to 150 hz, 3 up to say 500 hz and one full spectrum per channel...

The improvement in sound is that the speakers act better as a point-source, this will make the sound more accurate in placement, make the speakers not interfere in the higher frequenties(where they're not intended to on the same channel). Most of all, it will be more likely that phase and stereo-information as well as frequency behavior will be better spread throughout the whole room...

Did AB testing for 12 years working in a high-end audio shop, made hundreds of speakers and am working as an audio engineer for a broadcasting company now...

Must add that if you don't filter at all the sound produced will be very loud, but exaggerated in the mids and highs and with no accurate soundstaging whatsoever..

Perhaps don't read on If you don't want to cry(about having allready ordered the drivers). Vifa 10 bgs is probably the better choise in your case, also small but with pretty high Qt and high efficiency(and almost entirely flat response):
http://www.hifisound.de/oxid/oxid.ph...ER%20SHIELDED/
No, the veravox 3 is as I've read about it a solid investment...

"..but it's only 85db efficient"?

With every driver placed really close to eachother the sensitivity will rise a couple of db's!

Another thing beware of the maximum load(in ohms) the amp can handle indeed! Connecting two speakers in parallel makes the load oprox. twice as heavy in series aprox. half..You can overcome this by doing several series-parallel connections. Try getting an amp that can drive at least 4 ohms (or better: 2 ohms)...

"but i'd need a receiver in wich we would use 4 outputs for the same signal ..."

The same stereo signal, yes. Two left channels and two right, on each side one channel filtered out the mids and highs(thus will produce mainly bass). But as the filter I mentioned has to be before the poweramp(on the input..) every channel needs to have it's own analog(rca) input(!!). You can use two rca splitters from your stereo source or preamp, place the filter(resistor first in series, than the cap parallel) on two leads(one left and one right) and there you go!

Good luck on your build!
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Old 19th September 2006, 08:41 PM   #19
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
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thanks much again for the information

though i do not grasp all the whys of your explanation
i understand the principle

i already know that conentng 2 drivers in serie will double the load

i only use Bryston amplifiers
wich can handle almost 2ohm laods without trouble
but i am not sure anymore that we will be using the 2B for his system ... maybe a custom amp as you pointed or
the receiver amplification system ...
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Old 19th September 2006, 10:46 PM   #20
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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I could provide you with details , pictures (from thursday, since a friend from whom I can borrow a digital camera will be home from a holiday then) and most importantly I have a limited stock of aluminum cases(die cast!) that are suitable to bolt the chip directly to the case. This way you can get rid of the ugly heat sink it is provided with...
It measures aprox: 5x9.5x14.5 cm (2.25x4.75x7.25 inch)
Could send it to you...
For this amp:http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=91

I really tortured this amp, shorted speaker outputs, shorted them to ground, connected 1 ohm electrostatic speakers to it(when operating on 12 volt) took it everywhere (in my car, to holidays) It's rugged as a rugby ball!
The amp is not very hard to power(batteries, ac or dc, it's all possible, not much amperes(/watts) required...
Can be operated from 10 to 27 volts DC and has an on-board powersupply, only add a single-ended tranformer(18volts AC, that can deliver 100 watts or more).


Now my ears have been spoiled with Mark Levinsons, Audio Research, Briston, or name it, this amp is soundquality-wise "in the upper region"(takes a long wile for it to break in though...355 hours by now..) as I would say, therefore I think it's a bargain..

And in "my case" you can throw it from a building and it would probably still work.

And you will have a lot of possibilities in connecting.
On 12 volts: 1ohm minimum.
On 27 volts: 3ohm minimum.
Parallelled outputs to double power.(you can ask a schematic at autocostruire.it(.com, or choose english language).
They even have an 8 channel version!
All built and tested boards.


But though it is pretty powerfull (plenty for me), 4 times 40 watts continous in 4 ohm on 27 volts, capable of 100 watt peaks(explains why it sounds so dynamic) if you want more power 41hz.com...
Though I don't think the veravox drivers can handle much more...

Let me know if you(anyone?) is interested?
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