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Old 22nd August 2006, 06:36 PM   #11
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Dave,

is that plan to scale?


Andrew
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Old 22nd August 2006, 06:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andrewbee
Is that plan to scale?
It should be, it is a snap of the CAD drawings... if you want to be an early adoptor mail me off-line, I do have (not ready for presentation) plans with all the dimensions on them.

dave
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Old 22nd August 2006, 07:45 PM   #13
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Default Never thought of horns...

...but you've got me wondering.

How would these work with a Jordan Jx92s?
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Old 22nd August 2006, 07:45 PM   #14
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Hi Guys

Can I take it you like them, then? ;>) Dave's been a Saint, indulging my insane ideas and drawing like mad; so has Martin, who helped interpret the data (to say nothing of creating the worksheets I use to design everything), and Greg, for his encouragement and advice whenever I asked for it.

As Dave mentioned, I've got the first pair in hand at the moment, using a pair of his modified FE126Es (which arrived yesterday: think baby modified Decware 206 and you're on the right lines), so I'll let you know the preliminary results. Unlike the Frugelhorn, these are not intended for corner placement , but for more general room-use.

Re the responses. The lower mouth will see a reflection boundary condition (the floor) to a greater extent than the upper, so bass will likely be somewhat stronger than the 1/2 space sim suggests. We did toy with the idea of a reduction in the size of the lower horn to compensate for the different pressures this entails, but in the end, we decided symmetry rules.

Why a double horn? Terry Cain's magnificent double BEN designs provided the inspiration (so it's all your fault Terry, if you're out there... ;>), which is why we thought of calling them the FrugelBEN, partly humourous, but with a healthy dose of admiration in there too.

Aside from that, the benefits are considerable. Reduces footprint, it's a bit different from the things more usually seen, and also I / we wanted to explore the potential of a nominally symmetrical radiation pattern from the MDM (Mouth Driver Mouth ;>) layout. Why a Big Vent Reflex type horn, similar to a Replikon, instead of the more usual type? Again, variety. You don't often see them, which is a shame, because they work very well, so I though, why not?

Quote:
Originally posted by BWRX


Do the really small throat and large mouth area have anything to do with the reasonably driver independent response?
Good question. It's a combination of factors. Greg and Martin can explain the technicalities of the system behaviour far better than I can. It's mainly because the system operates in a similar way to a reflex enclosure in that below 100Hz, the horn dominates the response, so within reason (i.e. so long as the driver's Vas doesn't swamp the chamber etc's volume, and it's motor is strong enough to drive said horn), it's pretty tollerant: it doesn't affect the driver's own SPL curve over 100Hz much either, so it's very well behaved.

The Jordan's should work. Their Fs is a little low, if anything, but I suspect they'll go in, no problem at all. I'll run a sim tomorrow to check. Unfortnately, you can't do a quick and dirty check in one of the simpler sheets with this box -it's the full-blown sections sheet or nothing, so it takes a little while. If anyone has any quick requests for driver checks, say so now and I'll do them as a job-lot tomorrow.

Cheers for now
Scott
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Old 22nd August 2006, 08:13 PM   #15
Aengus is offline Aengus  Canada
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Quote:
...we'll need to come up with a different catchy name -- DoubleFrugel is kinda derivative.
The TwoFrugel?
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Old 22nd August 2006, 08:33 PM   #16
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Default Very nice looking boxes

have you looked at bigger drivers ie-168 sigma ?

I am interested in your listening impressions, especially if you can compare with similar BIB overall and re- low-end response.

Leonard
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Old 22nd August 2006, 09:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aengus


The TwoFrugel?
Et tu Frugel?

GM
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Old 22nd August 2006, 09:35 PM   #18
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I like that, Greg.


Re the other drivers and BIB comparison etc, it's difficult to say as there were very different objectives in mind.

I really designed them for drivers in the 4 - 4 1/2in range. However, I looked at the larger Fostex drivers out of interest. The only one that will have much of a chance of working in these particular boxes would be the defunct non 'E' FE168Sigma, (providing the full potential CC volume was used), as it's Vas is sufficiently low.

Regarding extension: well, using the 4in and 4 1/2in Fostex units, I reckon they'll be about equal to a BIB designed with those drivers, and rather more versitle in not needing a corner to work properly. However, a larger BIB -say one using the Monacor SPH-60X upward, would go considerably lower than these can achieve. I don't have a baby BIB myself, mine are somewhat larger, so I won't be able to do a direct comparison. For what it's worth though, I've designed and I'm building these for my FE126Es; not a BIB, love them though I do. The BIB really comes into its own with drivers sized about 5in upward, with an Fs of 60Hz or lower. For smaller drive-units, with a higher Fs, although you can build them, and they'll work well, I reckon there are equally good or better options. Hense this new double horn. They are of course a lot larger, and will have a different sound and presentation, so it's a case of whichever works best for you! Nice to have a few designs available to suit all pockets, rooms and sonic preferences.
Best
Scott
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Old 22nd August 2006, 09:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by BWRX


Do the really small throat and large mouth area have anything to do with the reasonably driver independent response?
Greets!

It's the acoustically fairly large filter chamber (aka the misnomer 'CC'). It's a matter of impedance matching with the horn being overdamped and the CC underdamped, so when you get a 'close enough' balance, a ~flat response over whatever gain BW the horn vent defines is achieved.

GM
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Old 22nd August 2006, 10:57 PM   #20
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default a name for Spawn...

er how 'bout

the DlugalHorn? ''
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