Crazy...sh.... I just plugged my ports &..

JandG · 6th August 2006, 10:09 PM

I thought to try pluuging my ports on my fe167e small BR monitors , both active class d subs set at 100hz or so, & I came off the couch in a great hurry......I just got rid of any shout or tizzyness that was left after installing Daves phase plugs, it is all gone, Bass is EXTREMELY tight & focused. 2 hrs later same thing & no change, this is GREAT.. I stuffed the ports tight with acoustic filler I had left over from a project.. everything is better & WTF....? how can this be..... was the ported box conflicting with the subs, it was real good, now it is crazy show off good, for a little 70.00 a pop driver....not much by itself, but with these subs & sealed box,,,OHHHHHHH BOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. I gotta go to sweet spot. be back later... .if you got a pair of subs & have similar set up, plug them damn ports tight & set around 100hz & listen to this... I thought the fe167e had to be in a BR cab.. shows how stuoid I really am......later.

Jeb-D. · 6th August 2006, 11:56 PM

Was your sub in phase with the bass coming out of the ports?

JandG · 7th August 2006, 12:14 AM

Before i tried it I did a 180 & back listen to system,,,,,it is set on 180 now & was before i did this. ...?? O seems to not be the place to be with the subs 4 " forward & directly to outside of monitor stands. I don'y have a clue why , but I am very happy...

Scottmoose · 7th August 2006, 07:17 AM

You've just created an aperiodic cabinet, which behave in a similar fashion to an optimally damped sealed enclosure. They actually go quite low, but have a smooth 12db per octave roll-off when properly designed. Aperiodic is not common any more, but they were, and still are, known for great bass precision and smoothness. I suspect it's integrating better with your sub for several reasons, like that mentioned above, and also eradicating any mild boom the enclosure might have had. You may not have heard it before -it's sometimes the thing we don't realise are a problem that cause the greatest headaches.

gmilitano · 7th August 2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JandG
if you got a pair of subs & have similar set up, plug them damn ports tight & set around 100hz & listen to this... I thought the fe167e had to be in a BR cab.. shows how stuoid I really am......later.

Hi,

I am really enjoying my FE127E in a selaed box. My findings were very similar, while they will not go nearly as low as a reflex or T-line, the bass that is present is tight and accurate. I found a great improvement in the midrange as well. This is very obvious when I only power one driver and use the rear driver as a passive radiator.

Perhaps you could try seal the port off completely or pack it real tight and compare.

While mating with a sub is not really "full-range", I much prefer the sound. You get more bass with the help of the sub, the midbass is tighter and accurate and the midrange is much better.

Cheers,
Gio.

Bob Brines · 7th August 2006, 03:27 PM

What you have done is reduce the excursion of the FE167E's below 100 Hz. This allows the drivers to run both cleaner and louder. You will get even better result by using an HT receiver with the mains assigned as "small" or some other DSP to cut off the FE167E's at ~100 Hz. With no bass, or at least very little bass going to the speakers, dopler (intermodulation distortion) is greatly reduced. Also, since there is little excursion above 100 Hz, you can run the speakers at insane SPL without running into excursion problems.

Once you take the bass off of your drivers, you don't need any cabinet at all to control low frequency excursion. You are now free to go OB or IB. It is folly, though, to use too small a sealed box. This will affect the bottom end of the midrange. Have you heard the term "boxy"? I get great results using an HT receiver with my MLTL's that are tuned to 40 Hz. Rolling them off at 100 Hz effectively removes the cabinet from the sound.

Bob

chrisb · 7th August 2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob Brines
What you have done is reduce the excursion of the FE167E's below 100 Hz. This allows the drivers to run both cleaner and louder. You will get even better result by using an HT receiver with the mains assigned as "small" or some other DSP to cut off the FE167E's at ~100 Hz. With no bass, or at least very little bass going to the speakers, dopler (intermodulation distortion) is greatly reduced. Also, since there is little excursion above 100 Hz, you can run the speakers at insane SPL without running into excursion problems.

Once you take the bass off of your drivers, you don't need any cabinet at all to control low frequency excursion. You are not free to go OB or IB. It is folly, though, to use too small a sealed box. This will affect the bottom end of the midrange. Have you heard the term "boxy"? I get great results using an HT receiver with my MLTL's that are tuned to 40 Hz. Rolling them off at 100 Hz effectively removes the cabinet from the sound.

Bob

Bob:
did you perhaps mean "now free to go OB"? (i.e. if bass limiting the FE127 or FR125 for example)

FWIW, a quick listen to a completely raw pair of the new NeoPhone drivers from Brian Cherry in OB's at the Planet10 love-in and DIY fest this weekend (not a single commercial speaker cabinet in the bunch

) ; very promising, but the Visaton B200 still cleans up for a FROB

Gio - the FE127 is more than flexible enough to work very well in the mini-onken style box, as well as TomZ's PAWO cabinet.

(Dave, were are those pictures of the bamboo's?)

cheers

Bob Brines · 7th August 2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisb

Bob:
did you perhaps mean "now free to go OB"?

oops. Yes I did. And how can I edit the original post?

Bob

JandG · 8th August 2006, 01:21 AM

This is exciting to me, because now I have heard what a inexpensive Fullrange driver is capable of & will persue fullrangers in many more experiments, OB is something I have to try....but for now I will tweek the fe167e.. next is to dampen the framework of driver with differant material, what do you guys use for that...? I have duct seal & blue tak, I was also thinking of hit glueing diifferant tone woods to driver case.... I will also try to seal them even tight oir seal completely & see if more improvements can be had. I will say that this caught ne off gaurd & did not expect much,,, leaps & bounds in better sonics,, I know running a pair of subs isn't true the the hard core fullrange people, but it is a simpler way for me to listen to my WIDE variety of music, including some very hard music when in the mood. I have learned alot fromn all the feed you all left thanks..
J & G

Scottmoose · 8th August 2006, 07:59 AM

The object is to find something that you like, not follow some illogical creed. Let the reactionary types tie themselves in knots complaining about what you're doing -they're not the ones who are listening to it.

Duct seal is usually good for damping baskets -it's what Dave uses anyway -about 70g on the FE126E, so call it about 100g on the FE167E. I might quickly mention that your idea about trying different types of wood (which resonate differently) seems to be at odds with damping the driver's resonances... (OK, I know the sound of hardwood is 'nicer' than that of metal, but you know what I'm getting at ;-)

Completely sealing the box could be good, providing you amp can handle the impedence spike -with your quasi-aperiodic enclosure as-is, you've likely got some damping going on, reducing the peak a bit. You might want to experiment with a BSC circuit & / or zobel, and phase-plugs too.

6th August 2006, 10:09 PM	#1
JandG diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Washington State	Crazy...sh.... I just plugged my ports &.. I thought to try pluuging my ports on my fe167e small BR monitors , both active class d subs set at 100hz or so, & I came off the couch in a great hurry......I just got rid of any shout or tizzyness that was left after installing Daves phase plugs, it is all gone, Bass is EXTREMELY tight & focused. 2 hrs later same thing & no change, this is GREAT.. I stuffed the ports tight with acoustic filler I had left over from a project.. everything is better & WTF....? how can this be..... was the ported box conflicting with the subs, it was real good, now it is crazy show off good, for a little 70.00 a pop driver....not much by itself, but with these subs & sealed box,,,OHHHHHHH BOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. I gotta go to sweet spot. be back later... .if you got a pair of subs & have similar set up, plug them damn ports tight & set around 100hz & listen to this... I thought the fe167e had to be in a BR cab.. shows how stuoid I really am......later.

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6th August 2006, 11:56 PM	#2
Jeb-D. diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: SoCal	Was your sub in phase with the bass coming out of the ports?

7th August 2006, 12:14 AM	#3
JandG diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Washington State	Before i tried it I did a 180 & back listen to system,,,,,it is set on 180 now & was before i did this. ...?? O seems to not be the place to be with the subs 4 " forward & directly to outside of monitor stands. I don'y have a clue why , but I am very happy...

7th August 2006, 07:17 AM	#4
Scottmoose diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK	You've just created an aperiodic cabinet, which behave in a similar fashion to an optimally damped sealed enclosure. They actually go quite low, but have a smooth 12db per octave roll-off when properly designed. Aperiodic is not common any more, but they were, and still are, known for great bass precision and smoothness. I suspect it's integrating better with your sub for several reasons, like that mentioned above, and also eradicating any mild boom the enclosure might have had. You may not have heard it before -it's sometimes the thing we don't realise are a problem that cause the greatest headaches.

7th August 2006, 03:27 PM	#6
Bob Brines diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hot Spring Village AR	What you have done is reduce the excursion of the FE167E's below 100 Hz. This allows the drivers to run both cleaner and louder. You will get even better result by using an HT receiver with the mains assigned as "small" or some other DSP to cut off the FE167E's at ~100 Hz. With no bass, or at least very little bass going to the speakers, dopler (intermodulation distortion) is greatly reduced. Also, since there is little excursion above 100 Hz, you can run the speakers at insane SPL without running into excursion problems. Once you take the bass off of your drivers, you don't need any cabinet at all to control low frequency excursion. You are now free to go OB or IB. It is folly, though, to use too small a sealed box. This will affect the bottom end of the midrange. Have you heard the term "boxy"? I get great results using an HT receiver with my MLTL's that are tuned to 40 Hz. Rolling them off at 100 Hz effectively removes the cabinet from the sound. Bob

8th August 2006, 01:21 AM	#9
JandG diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Washington State	This is exciting to me, because now I have heard what a inexpensive Fullrange driver is capable of & will persue fullrangers in many more experiments, OB is something I have to try....but for now I will tweek the fe167e.. next is to dampen the framework of driver with differant material, what do you guys use for that...? I have duct seal & blue tak, I was also thinking of hit glueing diifferant tone woods to driver case.... I will also try to seal them even tight oir seal completely & see if more improvements can be had. I will say that this caught ne off gaurd & did not expect much,,, leaps & bounds in better sonics,, I know running a pair of subs isn't true the the hard core fullrange people, but it is a simpler way for me to listen to my WIDE variety of music, including some very hard music when in the mood. I have learned alot fromn all the feed you all left thanks.. J & G

8th August 2006, 07:59 AM	#10
Scottmoose diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK	The object is to find something that you like, not follow some illogical creed. Let the reactionary types tie themselves in knots complaining about what you're doing -they're not the ones who are listening to it. Duct seal is usually good for damping baskets -it's what Dave uses anyway -about 70g on the FE126E, so call it about 100g on the FE167E. I might quickly mention that your idea about trying different types of wood (which resonate differently) seems to be at odds with damping the driver's resonances... (OK, I know the sound of hardwood is 'nicer' than that of metal, but you know what I'm getting at ;-) Completely sealing the box could be good, providing you amp can handle the impedence spike -with your quasi-aperiodic enclosure as-is, you've likely got some damping going on, reducing the peak a bit. You might want to experiment with a BSC circuit & / or zobel, and phase-plugs too.