help with my 1st FR and TL Project

flaevor · 2nd August 2006, 12:09 PM

I picked up a pair of the Tang Band W4-1052SAs for pretty cheap and would like to try a mass loaded TL. I had figured on making a straight pipe about a meter long but no longer than 115cm and I have no idea how to calculate the the port size. Anybody able to provide me with a sim?

I'm mostly just doing this for the purpose of learning as I have never heard a TL nor a listenable fullrange (but I don't doubt their existence). Not looking for perfection just want to have some fun. Any feedback or ideas would be great.

Scottmoose · 2nd August 2006, 01:16 PM

Well, here's one idea: a max flat (large) stand-mount:

20in tall
7in wide
8in deep
2in port, 4in long, 5in up from internal base on either the front or rear baffle.
Driver centre 5in down from top. (all internal dimensions)
Stuff 0.5lbs ft^3 of dacron or similar from the top to just above the port.

I don't normally bother with max-flat any more, but a standmount is often quite a good candidate for it -it'll add a little weight to proceedings. If you want to roll things off a little more, increase the port length by 1in.

Any other ideas guys?

flaevor · 2nd August 2006, 05:20 PM

Thanks. The sim looks good enough. I think I need to give these a try, but I am of course still open to any other suggestions.

flaevor · 4th August 2006, 07:32 PM

I went ahead and threw together some mdf cabinets based on scottmoose's sim and I'm just waiting on the ports to be delivered. when they get here I can seal up the enclosure and have a listen. I'll try and get some pics up if anyone is interested.

I'm pretty excited, I hope I'm not disappointed in the end.

Scottmoose · 4th August 2006, 10:05 PM

The proof is always in the listening. One of the benefits of this sort of thing is that you can tweak lots of different parameters to get the sound you like. Those TB drivers are excellent for the money. The enclosure you can do lots of things with -add more damping, remove damping, experiment with port lengths, add some foam to the port so it becomes an aperiodic enclosure -how many commercial speakers do you have this level of flexibility with?

Good luck & if we can help with tweaking let us know
Scott

flaevor · 10th August 2006, 10:39 AM

I just finished the rough cabs and hooked them up and now I have a huge problem... they sound so good that my wife is going to kill me for having spent so much time and money on my floorstanders last year.

These things are amazing!!! At first I was most impressed by the mid range quality as well as the highs. And that's when it happened after about 5 minutes it was like a bubble burst and suddenly the bass really started to flow. Startling. I went with an inch longer port to begin with since it's easier to shorten a port the lengthen it ; ). Still unbelievable. I also just noticed that I measured the driver and port placement relative to the outside as opposed to inside dimensions. Nonetheless fantastic!!!

I spent $40 on the drivers and $10 on ports and $12 on mdf, the rest I had laying around.

All I can say is thanks to Scottmoose for the sim and to MJK for developing the software.

Once again these drivers are amazing!!!

Scottmoose · 10th August 2006, 02:04 PM

Glad you like them. We all owe Martin a huge vote of thanks for his brilliant work.

The only real consequence of the driver / port placements being about 3/4in out will be a slight increase in the ripple, and the stuffing will likely kill that, so it's not worth getting too worried about.

One thing you might want to try at some point is a BSC filter. Something like a 1.5ohm resistor paralleled with a 0.5mH inductor in the + lead to the driver should help if you find the bass a little weak.

flaevor · 10th August 2006, 02:29 PM

After listening to them for a couple of hours I thought that they might benefit from some BSC but all in all they are just so good given the moderate investment that I don't know what to do with them. Had I been dissappointed I would have given them to a friend but now they are so good that I want to keep them. Which means finishing work but I need to improve at that anyway. For those non fullrange folks the w4-1052SA is in my opinion a phenomenal midrange bargain.

Oh btw I think I'm sold on fullrange, the stereo image really is spot on. It's allmost a bit eerie at first.

2nd August 2006, 12:09 PM	#1
flaevor diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Germany	help with my 1st FR and TL Project I picked up a pair of the Tang Band W4-1052SAs for pretty cheap and would like to try a mass loaded TL. I had figured on making a straight pipe about a meter long but no longer than 115cm and I have no idea how to calculate the the port size. Anybody able to provide me with a sim? I'm mostly just doing this for the purpose of learning as I have never heard a TL nor a listenable fullrange (but I don't doubt their existence). Not looking for perfection just want to have some fun. Any feedback or ideas would be great.

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2nd August 2006, 05:20 PM	#3
flaevor diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Germany	Thanks. The sim looks good enough. I think I need to give these a try, but I am of course still open to any other suggestions.

4th August 2006, 07:32 PM	#4
flaevor diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Germany	I went ahead and threw together some mdf cabinets based on scottmoose's sim and I'm just waiting on the ports to be delivered. when they get here I can seal up the enclosure and have a listen. I'll try and get some pics up if anyone is interested. I'm pretty excited, I hope I'm not disappointed in the end.

4th August 2006, 10:05 PM	#5
Scottmoose diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK	The proof is always in the listening. One of the benefits of this sort of thing is that you can tweak lots of different parameters to get the sound you like. Those TB drivers are excellent for the money. The enclosure you can do lots of things with -add more damping, remove damping, experiment with port lengths, add some foam to the port so it becomes an aperiodic enclosure -how many commercial speakers do you have this level of flexibility with? Good luck & if we can help with tweaking let us know Scott

10th August 2006, 10:39 AM	#6
flaevor diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Germany	I just finished the rough cabs and hooked them up and now I have a huge problem... they sound so good that my wife is going to kill me for having spent so much time and money on my floorstanders last year. These things are amazing!!! At first I was most impressed by the mid range quality as well as the highs. And that's when it happened after about 5 minutes it was like a bubble burst and suddenly the bass really started to flow. Startling. I went with an inch longer port to begin with since it's easier to shorten a port the lengthen it ; ). Still unbelievable. I also just noticed that I measured the driver and port placement relative to the outside as opposed to inside dimensions. Nonetheless fantastic!!! I spent $40 on the drivers and $10 on ports and $12 on mdf, the rest I had laying around. All I can say is thanks to Scottmoose for the sim and to MJK for developing the software. Once again these drivers are amazing!!!

10th August 2006, 02:04 PM	#7
Scottmoose diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK	Glad you like them. We all owe Martin a huge vote of thanks for his brilliant work. The only real consequence of the driver / port placements being about 3/4in out will be a slight increase in the ripple, and the stuffing will likely kill that, so it's not worth getting too worried about. One thing you might want to try at some point is a BSC filter. Something like a 1.5ohm resistor paralleled with a 0.5mH inductor in the + lead to the driver should help if you find the bass a little weak.

10th August 2006, 02:29 PM	#8
flaevor diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Germany	After listening to them for a couple of hours I thought that they might benefit from some BSC but all in all they are just so good given the moderate investment that I don't know what to do with them. Had I been dissappointed I would have given them to a friend but now they are so good that I want to keep them. Which means finishing work but I need to improve at that anyway. For those non fullrange folks the w4-1052SA is in my opinion a phenomenal midrange bargain. Oh btw I think I'm sold on fullrange, the stereo image really is spot on. It's allmost a bit eerie at first.