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Old 18th August 2006, 09:26 AM   #41
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Old 18th August 2006, 03:51 PM   #42
SCD is offline SCD  Canada
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Default Making things

Good Morning folks:
I guess my secret is out. I do like to make things. It seems my lot in life is to make a great variety of things, ranging from mountain bike trails to speakers to all grain beer, to wood stuff, etc.
The canoe is made with light weight fiberglass and has a Sitka Spruce and western Yew core. The house is a true timberframe with all wooden joinery, and no metal in the supporting structure ( no nails or metal brackets). It is a very old building style.

Nuff said about that, back to the topic at hand. Does anyone have the tools to measure the response effects of various plugs? If so let me know and we may be able to come up with a better design.

Thanks for the nice comments
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Old 18th August 2006, 06:05 PM   #43
Dumbass is offline Dumbass  British Antarctic Territory
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Quote:
Originally posted by SCD
Does anyone have the tools to measure the response effects of various plugs? If so let me know and we may be able to come up with a better design.
Maybe I'm talking out my arsse, but I wonder if there are things happening with phase plugs in the time domain that won't show up in a typical frequency response graph. Or maybe it's simply that the combing/interference issues that a plug ought to fix are at too fine a scale to show up.

I've a seen a few comparison plots of phase plug vs unplugged, and to me they never show a definitive improvement. However, I have heard with mine own ears an improvement with phase-plugging, so I conjecture that there is something about the standard measurements that isn't capturing what is going on.
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Old 18th August 2006, 07:30 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dumbass
Maybe I'm talking out my arsse, but I wonder if there are things happening with phase plugs in the time domain that won't show up in a typical frequency response graph. Or maybe it's simply that the combing/interference issues that a plug ought to fix are at too fine a scale to show up.

I've a seen a few comparison plots of phase plug vs unplugged, and to me they never show a definitive improvement. However, I have heard with mine own ears an improvement with phase-plugging, so I conjecture that there is something about the standard measurements that isn't capturing what is going on.
Oh yes. 1st off FR is only 1 dimension of a multi-dimensional space that needs considering.

Also FR is a gross measure. Consider the following statement "the difference between good hifi and great hifi is 40 dB down". a FR plot tells us only what is happening at 0 dB (and with a steady state signal totally unlike music)

Blind adherance to flat FR -- despite what Floyd says -- leads to the derogatory usage of the term "Danish/Madisound school of design" because in the quest for idealized flat FR. so many of the other dimensions of speaker performance are degraded that more often than not you end up with a boring, sterile sounding speaker.

Further, this is most often accomplished using filters & complex XOs, which means you e;iminate being able to use some of the very best sounding amplifiers.

One has to beware of "if the only tool you have is a hammer, then you treat everything like a nail"

dave
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Old 18th August 2006, 10:50 PM   #45
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10



Blind adherance to flat FR -- despite what Floyd says -- leads to the derogatory usage of the term "Danish/Madisound school of design" because in the quest for idealized flat FR. so many of the other dimensions of speaker performance are degraded that more often than not you end up with a boring, sterile sounding speaker.

dave

also colloquially described as constipated* - eventually all the "material" will come out - just not necessarily as quickly as you'd like.

* there's more than a few British and East Coast US commercial mainstream products that could be thusly described - I've owned several of them myself.
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Old 18th August 2006, 10:52 PM   #46
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Default Re: Making things

Quote:
Originally posted by SCD
Good Morning folks:

Nuff said about that, back to the topic at hand. Does anyone have the tools to measure the response effects of various plugs? If so let me know and we may be able to come up with a better design.

Thanks for the nice comments

y'all gotta trust your ears Scottie - all else is bull$hite
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Old 19th August 2006, 05:21 AM   #47
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Default Re: Re: Making things

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisb



y'all gotta trust your ears Scottie - all else is bull$hite
Clearly the final arbiter is your ear.

I however bet that if I could see an elimination of some resonances on an impulse reponse my FE-166E would sound better, which I would expect to lead to a smoothing of the 3.7K and 5K peaks.

Scott I have almost adequate measuring gear, and could probably do the measurements. I haven't responded before because I had hoped that someone else with beetter equipment and more experience would step up.

Sean
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Old 19th August 2006, 07:30 AM   #48
jamikl is offline jamikl  Australia
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Has anyone tried those small polystyrene bell shapes and egg shapes that you see in craft shops. They are used for homemaking Christmass ornaments I think. With some sort of coating they might do the trick and are available in various sizes.
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Old 20th August 2006, 01:00 AM   #49
renfrow is offline renfrow  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by jamikl
Has anyone tried those small polystyrene bell shapes and egg shapes that you see in craft shops. They are used for homemaking Christmass ornaments I think. With some sort of coating they might do the trick and are available in various sizes.
jamikl
I've been thinking about going a similar route, carving up pieces of the blue foam board used for home insulation. It has a fine enough structure that it shouldn't need more than a thin coat of glue to seal. The benefit (I think :-) would be that they are light enough that you wouldn't need to perform any surgery on the dustcap, just carve the back to fit! Maybe start with some bluetac to attach them, and then gluing them on when you get an 'optimal' shape.

Tom.
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Old 20th August 2006, 01:10 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by renfrow
you wouldn't need to perform any surgery on the dustcap, just carve the back to fit!
That would though completely bypass one of the major benefits of the phase plug which is to fill the hole left after the removal of the dustcap (removal of the dustcap is usually a beneficial mod in its own right)

dave
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