Making things
Good Morning folks:
I guess my secret is out. I do like to make things. It seems my lot in life is to make a great variety of things, ranging from mountain bike trails to speakers to all grain beer, to wood stuff, etc.
The canoe is made with light weight fiberglass and has a Sitka Spruce and western Yew core. The house is a true timberframe with all wooden joinery, and no metal in the supporting structure ( no nails or metal brackets). It is a very old building style.
Nuff said about that, back to the topic at hand. Does anyone have the tools to measure the response effects of various plugs? If so let me know and we may be able to come up with a better design.
Thanks for the nice comments
Good Morning folks:
I guess my secret is out. I do like to make things. It seems my lot in life is to make a great variety of things, ranging from mountain bike trails to speakers to all grain beer, to wood stuff, etc.
The canoe is made with light weight fiberglass and has a Sitka Spruce and western Yew core. The house is a true timberframe with all wooden joinery, and no metal in the supporting structure ( no nails or metal brackets). It is a very old building style.
Nuff said about that, back to the topic at hand. Does anyone have the tools to measure the response effects of various plugs? If so let me know and we may be able to come up with a better design.
Thanks for the nice comments
Maybe I'm talking out my arsse, but I wonder if there are things happening with phase plugs in the time domain that won't show up in a typical frequency response graph. Or maybe it's simply that the combing/interference issues that a plug ought to fix are at too fine a scale to show up.SCD said:
I've a seen a few comparison plots of phase plug vs unplugged, and to me they never show a definitive improvement. However, I have heard with mine own ears an improvement with phase-plugging, so I conjecture that there is something about the standard measurements that isn't capturing what is going on.
Dumbass said:
Oh yes. 1st off FR is only 1 dimension of a multi-dimensional space that needs considering.
Also FR is a gross measure. Consider the following statement "the difference between good hifi and great hifi is 40 dB down". a FR plot tells us only what is happening at 0 dB (and with a steady state signal totally unlike music)
Blind adherance to flat FR -- despite what Floyd says -- leads to the derogatory usage of the term "Danish/Madisound school of design" because in the quest for idealized flat FR. so many of the other dimensions of speaker performance are degraded that more often than not you end up with a boring, sterile sounding speaker.
Further, this is most often accomplished using filters & complex XOs, which means you e;iminate being able to use some of the very best sounding amplifiers.
One has to beware of "if the only tool you have is a hammer, then you treat everything like a nail"
dave
planet10 said:
also colloquially described as constipated* - eventually all the "material" will come out - just not necessarily as quickly as you'd like.
* there's more than a few British and East Coast US commercial mainstream products that could be thusly described - I've owned several of them myself.
Re: Re: Making things
Clearly the final arbiter is your ear.
I however bet that if I could see an elimination of some resonances on an impulse reponse my FE-166E would sound better, which I would expect to lead to a smoothing of the 3.7K and 5K peaks.
Scott I have almost adequate measuring gear, and could probably do the measurements. I haven't responded before because I had hoped that someone else with beetter equipment and more experience would step up.
Sean
chrisb said:
y'all gotta trust your ears Scottie - all else is bull$hite
Clearly the final arbiter is your ear.
I however bet that if I could see an elimination of some resonances on an impulse reponse my FE-166E would sound better, which I would expect to lead to a smoothing of the 3.7K and 5K peaks.
Scott I have almost adequate measuring gear, and could probably do the measurements. I haven't responded before because I had hoped that someone else with beetter equipment and more experience would step up.
Sean
jamikl said:
I've been thinking about going a similar route, carving up pieces of the blue foam board used for home insulation. It has a fine enough structure that it shouldn't need more than a thin coat of glue to seal. The benefit (I think
would be that they are light enough that you wouldn't need to perform any surgery on the dustcap, just carve the back to fit! Maybe start with some bluetac to attach them, and then gluing them on when you get an 'optimal' shape. Tom.
Hi Guys, I must admit I wondered about the benefit of phase plugs, as some time back I removed the centre cap of one of my 4 inch dual cone redback drivers and put in a makeshift plug. It did not seem to help, but and this is the clincher it was an unmodded driver.
After readiing these posts I decided to try again but this time with a modded driver, which consists of PVA all over the front and back of the cones, 3 layers of tissue paper around the perimeter of the cone and olive oiled surrounds and a couple of other tweaks.
Interstingly the differnce was now stunning, much cleaner treble, better imaging......just lovely.
This got me thinking, somehow I think that PVA on the centre whizzer makes it much stiffer, so the loss of the centre cap is not such a problem and hence the phase plug does the job cause the speaker is producing better highs to start with.....so this leads me to another thought that I will look at.
The reomoval of the cap still does take away some rigidity and for tight highs the centre of the whizzer cone needs to be very rigidly mated to to the former, I think that gluing a couple of layers of tissue paper around the edge where the whizzer and former join will strengthen the joint and possibly enhace the highs a little more, the weight gain would be minscule.
After readiing these posts I decided to try again but this time with a modded driver, which consists of PVA all over the front and back of the cones, 3 layers of tissue paper around the perimeter of the cone and olive oiled surrounds and a couple of other tweaks.
Interstingly the differnce was now stunning, much cleaner treble, better imaging......just lovely.
This got me thinking, somehow I think that PVA on the centre whizzer makes it much stiffer, so the loss of the centre cap is not such a problem and hence the phase plug does the job cause the speaker is producing better highs to start with.....so this leads me to another thought that I will look at.
The reomoval of the cap still does take away some rigidity and for tight highs the centre of the whizzer cone needs to be very rigidly mated to to the former, I think that gluing a couple of layers of tissue paper around the edge where the whizzer and former join will strengthen the joint and possibly enhace the highs a little more, the weight gain would be minscule.
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