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Old 21st July 2006, 06:25 PM   #11
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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I have not done any design work, but consider this combination as a starting point.


Full range driver = Fostex FE-167E or 166E, each is 94 dB efficient ($63 each)


15" Woofer = Eminence Alpha series 15A, each is 97dB efficient and Qts = 1.26 ($58 each)

or

15" Woofer = Eminence Beta series 15, each is 98dB efficient and Qts = 0.59 ($72 each)


Crossover = Behringer CX2310 ($90)

XLR Cables = six required ($50)


Total Cost = 2 x $63 + 2 x $58 + $90 + $50 = $382 plus wood.

I can say that a 15" woofer with a full range driver is extremely efficient and produces great dynamics. You can see my Project 7 for an example of this type of system. Again, I have done no design work but this looks to be a good starting point at a reasonable cost.
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Old 21st July 2006, 07:27 PM   #12
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default smaller open baffles

have a look at this link

a smaller baffle that the author suggests is exactly what he wanted.
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Old 21st July 2006, 07:55 PM   #13
Glowbug is offline Glowbug  United States
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http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-455

Those look like a good candidate...

The only problem with going active is that I don't have the amp channels for it right now, and I'd like to stick with the integrated amp I do have for now.
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Old 21st July 2006, 07:55 PM   #14
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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Think small ... you get small. He was discussing 15" drivers, so I made a suggestion of a combination I thought was promising. If I missed the mark, I'll back out of the discussion.
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:12 PM   #15
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So far, i'd classify most of the suggestions so far as medium expensive...

I'm reserving judgement on the Silver Iris 15 until i hear it with the new HGD XO. With the original XO i couldn't live with them. They do produce a wonderful, larger than life soundstage with a lot of bloom in the bass. The 10" will be interesting. The Visaton B200 i could live with (but can't afford).

If you want a truly cheap OB, you need to look at vintage recycled drivers. I have drawers of candidates (and could point to some of the more interesting ones that get onto eBay). With any open baffle the depth of the bass is largerly determined by the size of the baffle (althou JohninCR has done some interesting work with baffle shape). A high Q driver will have a more or less ideal baffle size which has OB cancellation in just the right place to lower the Q of the system. A higher Q driver will need a smaller baffle. To get real low bass you need to move a lot of air, and even for the 15" SI there is an auxilary woofer -- which gets us back to Martin's big/woofer, FR as midtweeter approach. To do this passively you need to get drivers with similar efficiency (not always easy) and XO above 200 Hz.

As a side note, when i was selling 3020s new, i sold quite a few with Quad 303s, PS Audios, Haflers, even NAIMs for use in bi-amped systems. A 3020 + a gainclone would be today's equivalent.

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Old 21st July 2006, 08:30 PM   #16
Glowbug is offline Glowbug  United States
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So one of these...http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-455

with one of these: http://www.madisound.com/pdf/fostexdrivers/FE167E.pdf

If I were to go passive, what frequency and slope should I be shooting for? I have no problem building my own Xovers, but figuring out where the drivers should be crossed at and how steep really isn't my thing

Thank you all for your help so far...immensely helpful
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glowbug
So one of these...http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-455

with one of these: http://www.madisound.com/pdf/fostexdrivers/FE167E.pdf

If I were to go passive, what frequency and slope should I be shooting for? I have no problem building my own Xovers, but figuring out where the drivers should be crossed at and how steep really isn't my thing
For something like that i always consider a 1st order series XO 1st (check Andy Graddon's site).

And with an XO over 200 Hz, you could consider the FE166e as well, but considering the differences in the efficiency, and not wanting to burn as much power in a series R as in the FR itself, you would do well to consider FE127e instead (despite 92 dB claimed it is probably closer to the 90 specced for the woofer). It is also about half the price, and it gets way better once modded. Even stock it has an edge on the 167 thru the mids & top where it would be used.

dave
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Old 21st July 2006, 09:01 PM   #18
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glowbug
So one of these...http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-455

with one of these: http://www.madisound.com/pdf/fostexdrivers/FE167E.pdf

If I were to go passive, what frequency and slope should I be shooting for? I have no problem building my own Xovers, but figuring out where the drivers should be crossed at and how steep really isn't my thing

Thank you all for your help so far...immensely helpful

You can't go passive with these drivers - the PE woofer is to low in eff. and fs..

Think of the PE woofer as an open baffle *powered* sub driver when used in pairs per channel.

Dave has the best idea at low cost.

Martin's suggestions are somewhat problematic for the lower and mid - midrange for a passive implementation unless the baffle is huge.. and I think thats what he is suggesting with the "wings".

There is one 15 inch driver that seems to be about right for the upper bass lower midrange in a passive implementation..
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Old 21st July 2006, 09:04 PM   #19
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default MJK... sorry If I mis-understood too...

Quote:
I'd build the JE Labs version, except my room is a little small for that...not sure how well I could fit the baffles in there. A taller but narrower baffle would fit better.
I was just suggesting something that may be smaller than the "JE Labs" OB, that reportedly fit the bill for the thread author in terms of size (as in smaller baffle than the "JE Labs" dimmensioned OBs).


Here's perhaps something closer to what MJK and others have suggested as far as a taller, narrower baffle
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Old 22nd July 2006, 12:46 AM   #20
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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Quote:
Full range driver = Fostex FE-167E or 166E, each is 94 dB efficient ($63 each)


15" Woofer = Eminence Alpha series 15A, each is 97dB efficient and Qts = 1.26 ($58 each)


Crossover = Behringer CX2310 ($90)

XLR Cables = six required ($50)


Total Cost = 2 x $63 + 2 x $58 + $90 + $50 = $382 plus wood.
OK, after playing with my MathCad OB worksheet for a few minutes, here is what I get for a response.

http://www.quarter-wave.com/OB_2_Drivers_5_09_06.pdf

This is a 40" tall and 24" wide baffle, looks pretty good to me.
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