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Old 26th June 2006, 05:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by phase_accurate


Mine go higher and they are 8".

Regards

Charles

No doubt they can GO that high, the question is, just how well does it reproduce it? Lets see some harmonic distortion graphs...
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Old 26th June 2006, 07:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
No doubt they can GO that high, the question is, just how well does it reproduce it? Lets see some harmonic distortion graphs..
Quite high below 1 kHz but lower than 0.3% above that @ 90 dB.

Regards

Charles
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Old 26th June 2006, 07:55 PM   #13
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The Jordan must be an excellent driver. Unfortunately I’ve never heard it and it became too expensive for me to buy a year or so ago. Besides, I’m too happy with my other drivers to justify buying the Jordan’s. That said… IMO the Fostex 127e, 168s and Radio Shack 1197 all have better treble than the B&W 1600 I have at home. The above drivers also have better treble than my old DIY kit using Dynaudio D290’s which cost about $150 each at the time. This is my opinion of course but the point is I feel wide range drivers can offer better treble than many multi-way designs regardless of price.

They also offer better midrange performance than many (or most) multi-ways regardless of price in normal sized rooms.

They don’t offer better bass tho and that’s where we sacrifice or supplement with powered subs.

As far as coming full circle and ‘realizing’ a two way crossed over around 3k is superior to running full range drivers ‘full out’ well, all I think we’ve realized here the Jordan is a terrific driver that can be used more than one way successfully. Other full range drivers could be mated with high quality tweeters as well. Besides, the demands placed on the Jordan in an MLTL may alter its hi frequency behavior (mo bettah bass may produce yuckier highs). Fact is, regardless of the drivers or their implementation, we are on a quest for the best. I applaud Jim for experimenting and sharing with us all on the forum!

Peace,
Godzilla
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Old 26th June 2006, 08:14 PM   #14
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HERE,HERE!!!

Ray
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Old 26th June 2006, 08:26 PM   #15
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I assume that the Jordan would make a superdamnbloodycoolandnice midrange driver in a transient-optimised three-way design.

Regards

Charles
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Old 26th June 2006, 08:54 PM   #16
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Default Re: Where does "fullrange" end and "two-way" start?

Quote:
Originally posted by KCHANG

..why we even bother playing with expensive fullrange drivers, such as the Jordan,

..when a cone+tweeter two-way design with a 3KHz crossiver point sounds better.

What do you think?

Kurt

Just any cone and tweeter probably will not sound better.. there are *many* factors why a fullrange driver might be preferred over another "cone":

1. minimal "break-up" ringing (..as Scottmoose pointed out)
2. higher eff.
3. better material sound
4. fewer resonant cavities
5. lower xmax (..loading, diameter, and "gain" dependent)
6. lower mms
7. less driver dampening
8. greater bandwidth allowing better tonal integration with other drivers

etc.

Obviously off-axis behaviour is important to why Jim choose such a low point for his crossover.. BUT there could be numerous other reasons as well why he prefers this, many of which he (or anyone else) might not be completely aware of. Certainly the low mass/low internal loss of the ribbon will have an sonic effect beyond that of the "on" and "off" axis response horizontally.
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Old 26th June 2006, 10:26 PM   #17
BWRX is offline BWRX  United States
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Default Re: Re: Re: Where does "fullrange" end and "two-way" start?

Quote:
Originally posted by nerd of nerds
Lower cost?!
JX92s, last i checked, costs about 360USD for a pair...
So, for about 360USD (we aren't factoring in the money spent on wood for the jordan system either) in drivers you could get 4 dayton RS125S, 2 RS28AS, the parts for a crossover, and a dead sexy box...AND to top it all off a small sub...
They are expensive compared to cheap drivers that can't do what they can, regardless of size. The cost of wood won't be much since the enclosures will be alot smaller than for the system you outlined. If you use quality crossover parts for even a 12dB/octave type your system cost will easily surpass the cost of the Jordans.

Quote:
Originally posted by nerd of nerds
Even adding a "super tweeter" and "rolling it in" with a cap effectively creates a 2 way that could easily be outperformed by cheaper "conventional" drivers...
How do you know? Have you heard the Jordans? I haven't either, but have heard other full range drivers and there is a certain magic to them that isn't there with conventional 2-ways. Of course it all comes down to personal preference and the full range driver sound is appealing to many.
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Old 26th June 2006, 10:53 PM   #18
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I haven't heard the jordans and i admit you guys have me on a few things...

If I had the money to invest in doing a full range vs 2/2.5/3way shoot out i sure as hell would...Not to raise one up over the other, to give an unbiased comparison between the two...
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Old 27th June 2006, 01:01 AM   #19
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Kurt,

I've been messing with "fullrange" drivers for the last 5 years or so and I think the same thing. Although, I'm still a sucker when it comes to the latest offering.

The trappings of the fullrange driver, to name a few are, simplicity, purity of sound (no xo), and coherence.

But it is a myth.

Wishful thinking seduces us into thinking that we can have it all with one driver. Then physics rears its ugly head. You listen and you realize you cannot have it all; deep bass, clear midrange, and airy top end. Bigger fullrangers break up at higher frequencies and smaller ones just cannot do satisfying bass.

Most so-called "fullrange driver" setups I've heard use a sub and/or supertweeter.

The two-way, if it is a compromise, offers a better chance of fullrange sound. I've a pair of JX92s and Aurum Cantus 3, so I'll try it in the GM transline.

So, the goal of fullrange driver falls short, but in reaching we have a better driver for two-way application.
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Old 27th June 2006, 01:26 AM   #20
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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OK, I'm going to say something very politically incorrect.

I do not believe a full range driver and a low powered tube amp can do the job. I do believe a full range driver, a correction circuit, and a high powered SS amp can get a lot closer then low powered tube or T amps. A simple elegant method of producing a balanced SPL response. Fast dynamics are maintained with a slight loss in efficiency. If you have not tried a SS amp and correction circuit I encourage you to give it a go and see what potential might exist.

While my Lowther ML TL does not produce the same bass as a bigger 10" or 12" diameter woofer driver, they do a very credible job down to 40 Hz. Not house shaking but very adequate for acoustic jazz. I don't feel they are lacking very much at the top end either, Lowthers are a big step up from the Fostex drivers I used in my previous designs.

I do believe that as a minimum an 8" full range driver is required to provide bass with some impact. A 6" full range driver might do a bit better up high but it will lack some of the weight down low compared to a similar 8" version. But even a 6" driver can do a very nice job using my nonpurist recipe.

And finally, a question. Is a driver with a whizzer cone a full range driver? There is a mechanical crossover in place to transfer from the main cone to the whizzer cone, you can see it if you look closely on the impedance plot. What is the difference between a driver with a whizzer cone and a coaxial?
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