Greets!
For me, R&R/Hard Rock and FR drivers are mutually exclusive unless they are augmented with a LF/midbass and super tweeter. The one exception might be a really large front and back loaded horn design, but never having auditioned one with Hard Rock, it's just speculation.
Soft Rock OTOH can be adequately handled by a Jordan MLTL in an average size room.
GM
For me, R&R/Hard Rock and FR drivers are mutually exclusive unless they are augmented with a LF/midbass and super tweeter. The one exception might be a really large front and back loaded horn design, but never having auditioned one with Hard Rock, it's just speculation.
Soft Rock OTOH can be adequately handled by a Jordan MLTL in an average size room.
GM
some observations: Supravox in OB is very nice with the rock music! Small Fostexes are too "clean sounding" and bass-shy so could be a bit agressive/unsupportable with rock. Lowthers/ACR in front horns with SE tubes are realy nice for rock (BD front horns). Chip FRs i experienced sound good with small acoustic music, when thinks become more complex - as rock music - they tend to be agressive and distorted, especialy when played loud.
type said:
I was going to ask this same question. I've gotten the itch to build a pair of Fostex horns using the FE206E or 207E. Most of the music I listen to isn't hard rock but some of it is.
Based on the responses here it seems that I should either plan on adding a subwoofer and supertweeter (though my ears might not benefit from the extra high frequencies!) or having two sets of speakers (not a high WAF option).
Still have the itch to build though!
it depends...
....it depends how loud you want to play your rock music, it depends how much are you willing to sacrify the bass
i have been using Lowthers on open baffle supported from 150Hz down by 15" woofer for 10 years now
and it can play any music
I believe that speakers should be designed to play well with all sorts of music...having said that, I do have second system just for very loud, very dynamic music, mostly rock, based on three compression drivers with pa 18" woofer, those speakers rocks, but occasionaly I play classical music on them too...
in my hymble opinion, single fr without woofer support in any enclosure will not satisfy, did not satisfy me
....it depends how loud you want to play your rock music, it depends how much are you willing to sacrify the bass
i have been using Lowthers on open baffle supported from 150Hz down by 15" woofer for 10 years now
and it can play any music
I believe that speakers should be designed to play well with all sorts of music...having said that, I do have second system just for very loud, very dynamic music, mostly rock, based on three compression drivers with pa 18" woofer, those speakers rocks, but occasionaly I play classical music on them too...
in my hymble opinion, single fr without woofer support in any enclosure will not satisfy, did not satisfy me
I might have a non-consensus opinion, but I think it is easier to get rock right than orchestral music right, with full-ranger or not. Large-scale orchestral music tends to have really gnarly transients in JUST the frequency range that is difficult for typical full-rangers. Most rock recordings, on the other hand, tend to be pretty compressed.
My FE207E in vented cabs give as much as I would want (with the exception of sub-bass) on material ranging from rock, reggae, electronic, jazz, esoterica, etc etc. If I had a larger listening room, however, I am not certain.
IMO a lot has to do with the kind of amplification. There seems to be an automatic conflation of single driver with SET -- misplaced assumption IMO. Lowthers in large rearloaded horn -- OK, that is a high efficiency setup. But most people with fullrangers have stuff that is CONSIDERABLY less efficient, and could use some more umph than just a 2A3 or 300B single-ended.
My FE207E in vented cabs give as much as I would want (with the exception of sub-bass) on material ranging from rock, reggae, electronic, jazz, esoterica, etc etc. If I had a larger listening room, however, I am not certain.
IMO a lot has to do with the kind of amplification. There seems to be an automatic conflation of single driver with SET -- misplaced assumption IMO. Lowthers in large rearloaded horn -- OK, that is a high efficiency setup. But most people with fullrangers have stuff that is CONSIDERABLY less efficient, and could use some more umph than just a 2A3 or 300B single-ended.
Rock with a full range speaker.....here ya go.......
http://www.stereostones.com/sierra.html
Sorry...I just had to......
Jason B
http://www.stereostones.com/sierra.html
Sorry...I just had to......
Jason B
anything melodic goes well with fullrangers. I play everything on mine (dipole re166e with a 15" atlas cutting in under 100hz), and for melodic death metal its GREAT. Crash cymbals are pretty good, although most recordings butcher it a bit, if you stumble upon one with good cymbals its really nice.
i dont think its that fullrange doesnt suit heavy music, i think its that the way they record ehavy music doesnt suit fullrangers! fullrange is very detailed and critical, the metal recordings are clipped/compressed/distorted most of the time.
i listen to everything on mine though, from black metal, to classical, to classic rock, to jazz.
im highly considering moving to a smaller basszilla knockoff OB configuration with me fe166, and a sealed 12 or 15(pyle ppa 15 looks good modelling wise, but im not sure about distortion!) and cross everything at 100hz(out of the critical vocal band, but still high enough that the fostex gets LF protection for more SPL) to give them more kick for rock etc!
you CAN rock with fullrange, as long as you have a sub.....but im not gonna lie...
...for metal id REALLY love a pair of d27 veritas! they look pretty awesome for it, lots of spl capability, TONNES of bass from 4 10" woofers, and extended HF response.
i dont think its that fullrange doesnt suit heavy music, i think its that the way they record ehavy music doesnt suit fullrangers! fullrange is very detailed and critical, the metal recordings are clipped/compressed/distorted most of the time.
i listen to everything on mine though, from black metal, to classical, to classic rock, to jazz.
im highly considering moving to a smaller basszilla knockoff OB configuration with me fe166, and a sealed 12 or 15(pyle ppa 15 looks good modelling wise, but im not sure about distortion!) and cross everything at 100hz(out of the critical vocal band, but still high enough that the fostex gets LF protection for more SPL) to give them more kick for rock etc!
you CAN rock with fullrange, as long as you have a sub.....but im not gonna lie...
...for metal id REALLY love a pair of d27 veritas! they look pretty awesome for it, lots of spl capability, TONNES of bass from 4 10" woofers, and extended HF response.
Maybe I listen to different non-polite music than Jim.
Steve Albini's guitar sounds great, saw Shellac the other night and though it was much louder live (and less well miked) I think my FE-166 BLH (currently the BK-16...building RonHorn for it) does an acceptable job. Jesus and Mary Chain, Medicine and other wall of distortion bands sound great as well. Ministry, recent Killing Joke and others of similar ilk are not as successfull on the system, then again many two-ways suck on this music as well.
Sean
Steve Albini's guitar sounds great, saw Shellac the other night and though it was much louder live (and less well miked) I think my FE-166 BLH (currently the BK-16...building RonHorn for it) does an acceptable job. Jesus and Mary Chain, Medicine and other wall of distortion bands sound great as well. Ministry, recent Killing Joke and others of similar ilk are not as successfull on the system, then again many two-ways suck on this music as well.
Sean
My feeling is that the Full Range don;t work great for rock as they are too revealing and lots of rock just sounds harsh through them, but they sure do sing with pretty much everything else and I have found DVD-A can really be used to advantage with them.
I listen to a lot of rock as well as most other stuff so I'm looking at building a pair of small 6.5 inch driver corner subs and I have super tweeters as well. The tweeters and subs will be on seperate amps so the real solution is that I can adjust them or even turn them off as needed, add a mid range attenuator on the full rangers, or perhaps use a bypassable equalizer and maybe you could have it all on demand. To me its seems like a real pity to compromise real musicality to cope with poor highly compressed rock recordings, with the alternative approach of regular multiway speakers you ultimate sound will always be compromised to suit the lowest common demoninator.
I listen to a lot of rock as well as most other stuff so I'm looking at building a pair of small 6.5 inch driver corner subs and I have super tweeters as well. The tweeters and subs will be on seperate amps so the real solution is that I can adjust them or even turn them off as needed, add a mid range attenuator on the full rangers, or perhaps use a bypassable equalizer and maybe you could have it all on demand. To me its seems like a real pity to compromise real musicality to cope with poor highly compressed rock recordings, with the alternative approach of regular multiway speakers you ultimate sound will always be compromised to suit the lowest common demoninator.
Assuming you are not using a sub of the three you mention the css FR125s are the most likely to work well in a BR enclosure, the Fostex drivers really are designed for more exotic enclosure configs. The FR125s though are fairly inefficient and looking at the specs and tests they will not go teriibly loud, but the response across the range is very nice up till the point they start to compress, bass is reportedly very nice.
The Fostex can sound very loud when mounted in horns, transmission lines etc, and they are efficient, especially the FE167s.
The overall feeling is that the 2 fostexs you are looking at sound pretty similar, with the 167 having a better kick in the bass, but quite a few really praise the 127s midrange/high prowess as maybe better.
One option is to use the 127s in a double bass reflex box, fostex have one on their site and it works very nicely, it is hardly any more difficult to build than the BR, basically it just involves an internal baffle, I'm not sure if there is a DB design for the 167 series, but that could be a good option too.
As an extra option you could try using a bass extender module with the 127s or 167s, I have one of these permenantly in the system using a set of 4 inch drivers and it works an absolute treat, easy to build and cheap!
http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=K5561
You should know that the 127s/167s are very revealing speakers so while they potentially sound great, it your using low grade amps, sources and cables they will probably end up sounding harsh, in that case the CSS FRs would probably be easier to live with.
Overally the consensus seems to be that the 127s are amazing value for money, and I feel if you have a good system and are going to use a sub, they would be a great choice for a small room.
The Fostex can sound very loud when mounted in horns, transmission lines etc, and they are efficient, especially the FE167s.
The overall feeling is that the 2 fostexs you are looking at sound pretty similar, with the 167 having a better kick in the bass, but quite a few really praise the 127s midrange/high prowess as maybe better.
One option is to use the 127s in a double bass reflex box, fostex have one on their site and it works very nicely, it is hardly any more difficult to build than the BR, basically it just involves an internal baffle, I'm not sure if there is a DB design for the 167 series, but that could be a good option too.
As an extra option you could try using a bass extender module with the 127s or 167s, I have one of these permenantly in the system using a set of 4 inch drivers and it works an absolute treat, easy to build and cheap!
http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=K5561
You should know that the 127s/167s are very revealing speakers so while they potentially sound great, it your using low grade amps, sources and cables they will probably end up sounding harsh, in that case the CSS FRs would probably be easier to live with.
Overally the consensus seems to be that the 127s are amazing value for money, and I feel if you have a good system and are going to use a sub, they would be a great choice for a small room.
Rock? I think that this ...
... could be a mission for the Viech:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50153&highlight=viech
I mean, Rock should be also relatively loud, relatively spoken.
The Viech is quite popular in Germany now, there are well over a hundred pairs built, and for example, there is a guy called dD1210 who used a pair of Viechs (supported by two Subwoofers) to run a Party with 300 people on 300 m2.
http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=104&thread=1913&postID=7168#7168
Another one used them without subwoofer for a party of 100 people open air, hehe.
Not bad for a HiFi-Speaker, isn't it?
From sound point of view I think that the Viechs fit nicely to Rock music, because of the very dynamic reproduction and the "stage" or "live" feeling they transport, especially when played at higher volumes.
Nice greetings, Berndt
... could be a mission for the Viech:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50153&highlight=viech
I mean, Rock should be also relatively loud, relatively spoken.
The Viech is quite popular in Germany now, there are well over a hundred pairs built, and for example, there is a guy called dD1210 who used a pair of Viechs (supported by two Subwoofers) to run a Party with 300 people on 300 m2.
http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=104&thread=1913&postID=7168#7168
Another one used them without subwoofer for a party of 100 people open air, hehe.
Not bad for a HiFi-Speaker, isn't it?
From sound point of view I think that the Viechs fit nicely to Rock music, because of the very dynamic reproduction and the "stage" or "live" feeling they transport, especially when played at higher volumes.
Nice greetings, Berndt
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