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Old 18th June 2006, 10:46 PM   #1
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Default the dreaded c word....(crossovers)

as a combination of my foray into OBs and fullrange at the same time ive been inspired by the basszilla and a couple recent subwoofer projects that caught my eye.

looking at the basszilla i love the idea for a fullranger OBed up top with a woofer below. so i was thinking my fe166e in OB, high pass first order at 100hz, and beneath a sealed push pull design utilising two 12" dayton classic drivers per side. the efficiencies work out, both woofer module and obed fostex work out to 94db 1w/1m.

the only thing im concerned about is losing that full range "magic" sound i am getting by introducing a crossover. is this the truth? does my idea sound appealing? i cant get my mind off the idea of no crossvers within the vocal band, can getting the wonderful sound of the fe166 together with the equally wonderful sound of paper coned woofers in a sealed push pull design.

so any input? i know this is technichally not fullrange, and id have some time before i woudl build this, as i want to try the BIBs and after tose are built the next thing is a pair gainclones.
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Old 18th June 2006, 11:48 PM   #2
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Hi Stephan,

I think the magic of which you speak is a lot higher in frequency. Adding a woofer to the bottom of it won't take that away. I would recommend a 2nd order though.
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Old 19th June 2006, 01:23 AM   #3
lndm is offline lndm  Australia
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I was reading Jordan's web site recently and they spoke of crossover difficulties. They mentioned matching the speed of different drivers, OK this can be reasonably done. They also spoke of point sources and tweeters being physically offset. Naturally, if you are talking about bass, this is a non-issue.

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Old 19th June 2006, 01:42 AM   #4
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Default Re: the dreaded c word....(crossovers)

Quote:
Originally posted by xstephanx
as a combination of my foray into OBs and fullrange at the same time ive been inspired by the basszilla and a couple recent subwoofer projects that caught my eye.

looking at the basszilla i love the idea for a fullranger OBed up top with a woofer below. so i was thinking my fe166e in OB, high pass first order at 100hz, and beneath a sealed push pull design utilising two 12" dayton classic drivers per side. the efficiencies work out, both woofer module and obed fostex work out to 94db 1w/1m.

the only thing im concerned about is losing that full range "magic" sound i am getting by introducing a crossover. is this the truth? does my idea sound appealing? i cant get my mind off the idea of no crossvers within the vocal band, can getting the wonderful sound of the fe166 together with the equally wonderful sound of paper coned woofers in a sealed push pull design.

so any input? i know this is technichally not fullrange, and id have some time before i woudl build this, as i want to try the BIBs and after tose are built the next thing is a pair gainclones.
Yes a even a first order high-pass will alter the sound of the fullrange driver.. BUT it may be an alteration you like..

There are two basic methods to go about this:
1. passive
2. active

1. in normal "voltage" based amplification crossover requires a large capacitor (though ultimatly its size dependent on the impeadance of the driver). Such a large value cap here will effect the ENTIRE passband of the driver. Now a really good cap make actually provide you with a sound you prefer, BUT most caps at low prices and at large values will sound like cr@p. IF you go with current amplification (like Nelson Pass's First Watt offerings) then the cap instead becomes an inductor - and typically GOOD AIR CORE inductors have less of an impact on the sound of a driver - particularly in this configuration where the inductor is effectivly bi-passed.

2. with active setups you have analog tube and solid-state setups, and digital.. Here I'd be looking at (good) analog tube for good sound.

I think that what this means ultimatly is that you should avoid the high-pass crossover - UNLESS you have real need to shape-out any response irregularities like DO's use of a lowther driver. (..and a 166e doesn't really need this.) This lack of high-pass will of course limit your power handeling considerably, BUT you should still be able to get to at least 100 db without audible distortion for most of its passband.
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Old 19th June 2006, 02:29 AM   #5
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well theyre in OB now, and im nto getting close to 100db and the driver is moving like 1.5mm. This aint great considering its xmax is a mere .3mm. however i still cant sense any distortion when the driver is moving this much :S

thats treally the reason i wanted to add the woofer, to get more power, cause the bib has solid bass down to 35hz, its just a matter of power. And i was thinking, man if i coudl get this sound.....but louder, id be in HEAVEN!
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Old 19th June 2006, 02:46 AM   #6
lndm is offline lndm  Australia
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Well, didn't even Nelson Pass end up mating his Kleinhorns with his El-Pipe-o, eventually?
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Old 19th June 2006, 02:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by lndm
Cal,

Usted sabía que alguien traduciría eso. Risa.
Yes I guess I did
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