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Old 18th March 2008, 05:46 PM   #91
_henry_ is online now _henry_  Australia
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Default jx92s/g2si with pllxo

hi,

is it possible to use pllxo for the g2si/any other ribbon tweeter?

i'm planning to use gainclone for each driver and pllxo to them, i wonder if this is a good idea


cheers
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Old 18th March 2008, 07:16 PM   #92
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Hi Henry_,

I don't know about pllxo but another option that I find sounds very good is:

Use a gainclone channel for each driver. Put a 3uf Sonicap with .22uf Sonicap Gen2 bypass in series with the g2si tweeter and a coil (sorry don't know the value I am using) in series with the Jordan. You will have to use a voltage divider before the gainclones to adjust the volume levels of the drivers. The tweeter needs to be padded down quite a bit.

If anyone is interested in more details then please bug me to measure the coil and voltage divider resistor values.

If you were to use pllxo you will need to use a cap on the tweeter to protect from accidental low frequency pops from your amp, so now all you need to add is a coil to limit the highs on the Jordan. Also you need to connect the two drivers 180 degrees out of phase.

My simple XO is not frequency flat but its strength is lively, clearer, bigger sounding then when I tried the more complicated XO.

Cheers,
Brent
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Old 18th March 2008, 10:26 PM   #93
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Henry,

I doubt seriously that you can implement a simple PLLXO that would rival the passive crossover that is used the 'Jordan with a Ribbon' design.

I'm assuming that you are building my either 'Jordan with a Ribbon' mini-monitor or MLTL as I specify in the design packages. That design has the crossover derived from actual measurements from the specified enclosures so that the baffle step offset is inherent as well as level matching between the woofer and the tweeter. This design will have tonal balance that can not be achieved with just the basic PLLXO configuration.

Now if you have a full-up active crossover with an equalizer you can achieve sound as good as with the passive crossover. My point is that it takes both the crossover and the equalization to match what the 'Jordan with a Ribbon' design does.

You can acheive a crossover that surpasses the passive crossover if you have a fancy active digital crossover with EQ but that is far away from a simple PLLXO configuration.

My point is that you'll get to a listenable speaker a lot quicker with the 'Jordan with a Ribbon' design that generating a science fair project going the PLLXO route.

Jim
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Old 18th March 2008, 11:03 PM   #94
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Jim,
I am intent on trying to re/use my VTL cabinets with your ribbon / jordan design.
I know that this presents several issues, the biggest being that your crossover was specifically designed for a 7.5" wide baffle with the driver placed 5.175" inches apart (center line).
I also know that this "experiment" of mine might turn out horribly wrong but no one is likely to get hurt so why not try, except perhaps my feelings... sob, sob

In order for the ribbon to work in the existing cabinet it needs to be placed 6.5" below the jordan driver, the cabinet is also 12" wide (original VTL specs). So now i am painfully off in two regards... but i ask that if one was to proceed with this mad experiment... what part your cross over should be adjusted to compensate for the additional baffle width.?
I suspect that the 1.3mH inductor should be increased but to what? The original VTL BSC called for a 2.2mH inductor.

Cheers and thanks for your patience
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Old 18th March 2008, 11:21 PM   #95
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Neil,

I hate to rain on your parade but starting with the VTL box vs. the suggested MLTL really is a reach to achieve equilvalent results. Given how the crossover is based upon actual measurements from the enclosure that means the placement of the drivers, the baffle width, and such are significant. The baffle step comp is inherent within the crossover so a separate inductor/resistor isn't needed for the 'Jordan with a Ribbon' design.

Effectively, I would suggest a new crossover be developed for the VTL arrangement if you wish to proceed with it. You might also consider building the MLTL configuration and re-using your current drivers or use new drivers in the MLTL.

Perhaps someone else has a crossover for a ribbon using the VTL configuration.

Jim
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Old 19th March 2008, 07:35 AM   #96
_henry_ is online now _henry_  Australia
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Brent,

thanks for the suggestion, i think it would be interesting also to try ur simple xo,
if u have time please dont forget to measure ur coil

Jim,

thanks for clearing that out, so i'm settled then, will try ur passive xo first
just i read few articles about this pllxo, seems interesting


cheers
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Old 19th March 2008, 10:11 AM   #97
Colin is offline Colin  United Kingdom
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Hi Neil

Before committing surgery on your VTL, you may wish to try it with the recommended BSC from the Jordan site:

R - 4.0 ohms
L - 2mH

Using the measured values on my MLTL made a world of difference to the sound. It will probably balance out the bass and mid, which in turn may alter your perception of the treble.
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Old 20th March 2008, 06:24 AM   #98
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Default simple XO

Hi _henry_ and all,

I measured the coil I am using in series with the Jordan driver. It is .4 mH. This air core coil is from an old pair of Energy 22 Speakers, that is why the odd value. It has dc resistance of .4R.
I tried the .3mH coil I bought for the more complicated XO and it was not enough to tame the Jordan. The 1.5mH coil left the Jordan sounding flat (like it I guess it should in a complicated XO).

The voltage divider before the gainclone channels/drivers is a 60/100 ratio. I use Dale resistors, the same ones I use in my DAC. I tried other brands here and the Dales sound the best.

I know this simple XO shouldn't sound as good as it does. But when I try to be more conventional by making the tweeter not so hot or complicate the XO it goes down hill.

With this XO the high-end is very hot and depending on the song it can be too much, but for most songs it sounds great. Like a horn or something. The tweeter goes lower then it should, but for the most part it sounds fantastic. For example with just the tweeters playing I can reproduce a shaker (you know the instrment/ball on a stick with rice or peas in them) really well.

This summer I will take my complete system out to the DiyAudio event http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...hreadid=118743 to get some feedback.

I am using a NOS DAC, that may account for why it sounds the way it does. When I have time I will pull out my Denon CD player and see how that sounds with this setup.

If anyone wants more details (I am happy to provide them) or guestions then let me know. I will start a new thread.

Cheers,
Brent
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Old 29th June 2008, 06:50 PM   #99
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I just got curious, if Jordans which are capable of full range reproduction are used only for mid-bass, how about using cheaper mid-bass woofer? Something like Neofone from DIYhifisupply (of which higher efficiency is a bonus) comes to mind.

Doug
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Old 29th June 2008, 09:21 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doug Kim
I just got curious, if Jordans which are capable of full range reproduction are used only for mid-bass, how about using cheaper mid-bass woofer? Something like Neofone from DIYhifisupply (of which higher efficiency is a bonus) comes to mind.

Doug
If you are talking about the ribbon mltl's in question.The crossover point is 3000hz,so the Jordan does the work from about 35hz to 3000hz ,I wouldn't say it's used for mid bass!?
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