Pioneer B20 and Visaton BG20

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inrank

inrank

Member
Joined 2005
are either of these cheap fullrangers any good.

thinking of having 2 or 4 in ob with a super tweeter. crazy idea?

cant afford the B200 at the moment, i allready have some CSS Fr125S's in IB which are ok, but looking for a floorstander using fullrangers, and at least 8 inchers as i listen to alot of rock lol

a real ultimate budget speaker ;)

(or do somthing like this.... http://www.zillaspeak.com/pioneerb20-piezo.asp)
 
edjosh23

edjosh23

Member
Joined 2004
cardomain.com/ride/621686/1
inrank,

My pioneers are my main speaker. I love them. You can check them out on my website. My box is a bit different fron Godzillas, but I really like these drivers. I have a pair of wr125s, but they have been moved to make space for the B20s. Here is my thread about the pioneers. Infact I just added BSC today when I dropped by a local audio shop.

I have also heard good things about the BG20s and would recomend them as well. The BG20 has lower Fs, high efficency, and greater xmax.

Good luck,

Josh
 
GM

GM

Member
Joined 2003
Greets!

Cool! Thanks for the effort!

FYI, the ~5 yr. old pair I have are strictly midbass units and better suited to small lead guitar practice amps since they begin distorting like right now, so for HI-FI I recommend either sealed or aperiodic with a separate sub system, though if driven with an impedance matching amp, a Vb = Vas, Fb = ~1.62*Fs 'vintage' vented alignment should work.

That said, I mass loaded one with poster tack to both lower Fs/raise Qts and damp down its HF BW (covered the DC and filled in the hollow where it joins the diaphragm) and it shifted the distortion to below my acute hearing BW enough to use it as a LF 'fill' driver for the modest SPL B20 OB prototype I posted about on the original FR forum.

As always, YMMV.

GM
 
inrank

inrank

Member
Joined 2005
so i have 3 running full range and one rolled of in the bass or one running fullrange and the other rolled off in the midrange?
bit of a novice with more than one driver lol.

and is it better to wire two pairs in series then the the two sets of two in series?
 
GM

GM

Member
Joined 2003
Greets!

For reasonably low distortion/decent dynamics with OB loading, you want one high passed around 80-100 Hz, then at least four more bandpassed (low and high passed) to handle the BW below this point.

For four drivers, wire two pair in parallel, then series them.

GM
 
inrank

inrank

Member
Joined 2005
ok, so i have one running fullrange from 80-100Hz on up, then cant i run the other three with just a low pass filter say at 6000Hz or somthing, so i have 3 bass/mid then one mid high....

it has a rated efficiency, the pioneer of 90dB, simmilar to the BG20, so with 4, will the efficiency be more, or the same?

will they go resonalby loud? (with 70W per channel)
 
GM

GM

Member
Joined 2003
Greets!

With so little usable excursion, unless there's lots of room gain, you need some form of high pass EQ on the LF BW drivers and wiring three drivers either in series or parallel makes it a tough load for the amp. A decent compromise is to put the LF drivers in a TL or MLTL and just OB the single FR driver.

The low pass XO point/slope will need to complement the FR driver's. 6 kHz is a good point to roll in a super tweeter.

Efficiency is frequency dependent, rolling off with decreasing frequency below its mass corner (~2*Fs/Qts) and rolling off even quicker (6 dB/octave) below the baffle's F6, but for every doubling of area it doubles its acoustic efficiency (~+3 dB) over the BW <1/3 WL between driver centers, so for four, there's a ~6 dB gain down low referenced to one driver.

With 70 real watts, five drivers/channel and some room gain, they should be able to play most music loud enough for most folks. Pipe organ symphony dynamics and Heavy Metal 'head banger' SPLs will be a bit of a stretch, so you may need to fuse them for protection.

GM
 
edjosh23

edjosh23

Member
Joined 2004
cardomain.com/ride/621686/1
I donno about compared to the Maggies, but with 5 of these, 1 running full range and 4 as BWs, this should give you a rather large soundstage. If you look at the FR graphs you will see when the drivers begin to roll off. By having multiple drivers your overall effeciency increases, while distortion decreases. The extra efficiency will be used for the lower frequencies, where it is needed with these drivers.

Josh

edit: Don't forget, you will need a helper tweeter, these drivers get a bit rough up top.
 
GM

GM

Member
Joined 2003
Greets!

Unless Maggies have been seriously improved from the last ones I auditioned in the mid '80s, I don't consider them as having that big a soundstage or having much in the way of dynamics, but then my background is with compression loaded horns. FR drivers soundstage pretty good and except for the best of the lot ($$), their dynamics can only be described as 'polite' at best.

For sure, the 'el cheapo' Pioneers are just that, cheap. Great bang/buck, but without a lot of tweaking they are strictly party speakers and I'm sure no match for the Maggies' SQ. Since the multi-driver array's efficiency is only as good as a single driver's midband (~89.87 dB/W/m = ~0.06%), it will only meet my definition of 'effortless' on chamber or a capella music and unless your HF hearing is even worse than my 60 yr old ears, you will definitely need a super tweeter. Of course if you have a small room, then you won't need high SPLs to 'flatten' your ears.

GM
 
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