full range for the mids and high, bass unit for the low? - diyAudio
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Old 19th May 2006, 08:33 AM   #1
swin1 is offline swin1  Australia
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Default full range for the mids and high, bass unit for the low?

Hello there, I want to ask about designs using a full range and bass driver. I have a couple pairs of some pretty decent midbass drivers, where the bass is definitely what I want, but the mids aren't so good. I've always liked the idea of a single driver covering the mid - high frequencies, so there is no filtering in the vocal frequencies.

What I'm looking for is comments on full range systems with dedicated bass units. I'm looking at using a CSS FR125S or fostex or equivalent driver, paired with my midbass drivers, filtered anywhere from 200 - 500hz, in order to get loud and clear mids and highs and deep throbbing bass, as the drivers I have are tuned to 35Hz, and are more than satisfactory for the size of the room I'm in.

What are your comments?

Cheers, ~Andrew
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Old 19th May 2006, 02:05 PM   #2
Kensai is offline Kensai  United States
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You're going to need to get the crossover down more into the 100-120 region to really get beneath the vocal range. 200-500 is right through the fat part of it.

Otherwise, its a good idea. The lowest frequencies require so much more energy to produce that if you've got a single driver covering all the spectrum, you're likely to get more distortion throughout because of all of that lower frequency energy. Then there's always the issues of needing a larger driver to provide the lower frequencies, and it seems that 8" is really the limit for any readily available FR units, and they trade off top end and off axis performance for increased bass capabilities, and even that is not generally that great since they are not designed as bass drivers.

Now, the main problem with using an FR with a bass driver is that the crossover can be very expensive, simply because the large values required to build it mean large parts and they do seem to sell by the pound ;-p I'm not even remotely a crossover guru, so if you can't figure it out from the Parts Express Crossover Primer, I won't really know anything about it, but maybe there are some other concerns here, too. On possiblity would be to simply let the FR driver run FR and run the bass driver from a plate amp and use the plate amp's adjustments to blend the bass driver into the FR driver's natural output. I've been thinking along these lines for awhile, but even a couple of cheap PE 70watt plate amps along with drivers to go with them has been a bit out of my budget.

Kensai
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Old 19th May 2006, 02:19 PM   #3
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Yeah! Driving woofers with plateamps is also my kind of thing and I would use the cheapest Hypex as it has 12db cut off, and it is true that good big passive components will easily become more expencive than than a cheap Hypex - and it will be more effective and have the possibility to adjust level of bass, EQ...

But I actually like passive filters as they have other options of adjustments, but thats more tricky

And that leads to another aspect - I think FR125 might not be the best choise for this kind of setup
It is simply too ineffective - true, it has huge Xmax, but because of its low sensitivity it will get into trouble keeping up with most woofers - but offcourse it all depends on how loud you play
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Old 19th May 2006, 02:27 PM   #4
kepa1 is offline kepa1  France
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This is a really good idea indeed and if you can go active its better, I mean let the fullrangers reproduce sound above 100hz or 120hz like Kensai said so that their cones stay relatively still even at high volume.

Now, a good advice would be to try and match the woofers with the fullrangers, for example avoid mixing paper and metal drivers, loot at their specs and T/S parameters.
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Old 19th May 2006, 03:23 PM   #5
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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With the CSS you sacrifice quite a lot of sensitivity for excursion you don`t need for your application. I heard many good things about the Fostex FX120.
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Old 19th May 2006, 03:31 PM   #6
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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How much a FR moves at high levels relates to its size and sensitivity

FX 120 is said to need assistance of a supertweeter, kind of like that
Also there are new Tangband types with cast iron chassis and neo magnet, and I think of a 5" with Xmax of 3mm, 89db
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Old 19th May 2006, 03:36 PM   #7
shooter is offline shooter  United States
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Default Basszilla

check out Dick olsher Basszilla, full range driver running 150hz and up to 10,000hz open baffle, cross over to a ribbon above that and a 15" pro driver on the bottom, they sound absolutely fantastic.
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Old 19th May 2006, 03:51 PM   #8
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Sounds like a dream setup

SWIN1, you havent told us much about your woofer, other than you like it very much
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Old 19th May 2006, 03:55 PM   #9
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If you're thinking of going with the approach of a plate amp, how would you take care of BSC?
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Old 19th May 2006, 04:49 PM   #10
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Wide baffle would help, I guess
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