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another problematic question
another problematic question
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Old 1st May 2006, 09:54 AM   #1
SunRa is offline SunRa  Romania
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Default another problematic question

I've been doing intensive researches of a fullranger for over two years now... and of course i couldn't find a conclusion, but i've managed to make an ideea of what I want.

I listen mainly classic rock and acoustic guitar, piano muzic (from led zeppelin, deep purple, rolling stones ac/dc to eric clapton, al di meola, santana, paco de lucia and then tori amos, loreena mckennit and so on), but jazz too. Quite a lot of genres, but not pop music, house and the rest... I'm telling you this because I think it's important in choosing a driver and a cabinet.

I must say that I will power them with a JFET ZV9 amp and that I am used mainly with bookshelf speakers (nothing bigger than 6,5'') and headphones (so maybe I won't feel a lack in bass...although I always wanted more bass from my bookshelfs )

So I have resumed to these options (my budget is somwhere between 300 and 400Eur for the drivers)

Even if I know FE108ez has a great midrange detail (and would do justice for vocals), I don't think a 4" driver is suitable for my kind of music taste...

1. Fostex FE168EZ in recomended BLH, or one of Terry's Cain designs.
2. Visaton B200 or Hemp FR8 in an Open Baffle. (for know this is my number one choise)
3. Fostex FE208+ tweeter

I must say that I am really intersted in Open Baffles...in fact the last option I am thinking (if i'll get more money) would be a supravox 215signature+ tweeter in OB...but for now I don't think it's possible.

Even if I am intersted in B200, I am afraid about the poore Xmax...don't know if it will cope with the music... The Fostex should be more detailed, and even if they have a small Xmax, I think beeing in BLH helps them a lot with bass. I know the best solution would be to use woofers from 150Hz down... but i'd like to try true fullrange for now.
If you think I won't get satisfying results (for the music I listen) with fullrangers, and I should go for a classic 2 way sistem (with scan-speak revelators drivers for example) in a tqwt or tl, please tell me .

Now... what would you advise me to choose between all these? (I'm opened to new sugestions too).
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Old 1st May 2006, 06:50 PM   #2
sumacSK is offline sumacSK  Slovakia
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I can tell you that my musical tastes are about the same... And after maybe even more than 2 years I consider exactly the same drivers And also one more- P.audio BM-8CXA but it is not fullrange though.

Best of luck Martin
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Old 1st May 2006, 09:25 PM   #3
peterbrorsson is online now peterbrorsson  Sweden
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Hi, check out "Terry Cains BIB..." thread. It is a long one, have patience and read it. I have built a "small" version which are belching out 40 Hz in a 50 sqm office with a cheap mini stereo for about 70 Euro. Incredible speed and punch from a 4.5' 20 Euro driver. They are breaking in at my office and will go home after a couple of weeks. I made these out of curiousity after reading the thread. There will be more with better drivers, for sure...

Best Regards Peter

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Old 28th August 2006, 04:18 PM   #4
SunRa is offline SunRa  Romania
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Thank you for your replyes... unfortunately, there is a change in the plans

So I've settled down to fostex 168ez. I've read the BIB thread and I guess this would be the best enclosure for it. The problem is that for the next two or three years there's no way I'll have this kind of space in order to acomodate the BIB's. Not even for the 108, another driver than actually could be suitable for me, considering the lack of space.

I probably need a BLH. But as far as I know, planet10 didn't like the 168 in the fostex rec. enclosure (I hope I'm not mistaking). So what oder options do I have? I like de Fruegel horn...but I don't want a corner loaded horn... I need some bass extension with all kind of placement. Oh, and the enclosure will allmost sure be multilayer mdf. Just that I couldn't find something suitable yet..

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Old 28th August 2006, 05:05 PM   #5
lovechild is offline lovechild  Europe
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if you want to listen to Led Zep etc. on a fullrangedriver, I believe a BLH is the only option and any type of horn with some real bass extension will be big.

The BIB is a BLH and as AFAIK there is no other horn design that needs less space for a simular bass extension than the BIB - it's tall but has a small footprint.

best, LC
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Old 28th August 2006, 05:56 PM   #6
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Default think "Foot print"

I'll echo what LC says about "size" of enclosure - if you can think about the area of floor space consumed by the enclosure, and any placement issues e.g. bipole or O/B, then the BIB are a very efficient package.

I heard Terry Cain's first prototype with Fostex driver back in 2001, (forget which exact model, but it's probably discontinued now anyway ). They work very well indeed, and tucked in a corner take up far less floor space than a Frugelhorn.

Dave (Planet10) & I have by now built several Fostex recommended enclosure designs ( the 103 BLH, 126 "hybrid", and 167 BR), but not the larger BLH for 168. None of them elicited the degree of performace from their intended drivers of any number of DIY designs (even an only slightly modified Buschhorn MKI). It may be closed minded of us, but that experience has dampened my enthusiasm to try another of the factory recommended designs. Maybe if they weren't so time consuming to fabricate ..... I was able to fabricate 2 pairs of the BH MKI in one long afternoon (granted I took a couple of short cuts ....)

If space is at a real premium, the Fonken for 127 is worth consideration - although XO at 80-100Hz and a sub would be required for maximum bass extension and SPL.
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Old 28th August 2006, 06:13 PM   #7
SunRa is offline SunRa  Romania
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Thanks all for the reply. Well, I was aware of the fact that a BIB (horn) would have a smaller "footprint", and it is a very efficient package. I will try for sure some time in the future.

But in my case (at least for the moment), the BIB's are somehow inapropiate because of the height. That is why I am still considering a BLH... And by the way...i've just found this link (I don't know how I did forget about it). Of course this is for de 168S... but maybe the EZ could fit in.

less compromised horn

Another option would be to try to stick with the 108... but I guess I won't have any usable bottom-end... If i don;t find any optimal blh design, i think I'll go with the bib...
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Old 29th August 2006, 04:15 AM   #8
bassrogue is offline bassrogue  United States
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I listen to much of the same music as you and played it through Klipsch Cornwalls and Belles for almost 20 years. When I got the fullrange bug I went with the 206e fostex but I liked the 208sigma recomended BLH so thats what I built. I sold both pairs of Klipsch with no regrets. My 206-208 BLH may not go quite as low as the Cornwalls but it's better quality bass IMHO These cabs do have a bigger footprint than a BIB for the same driver though.
Just once I wish someone would call me "Sir" without adding, "you're making a scene"
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Old 29th August 2006, 05:58 PM   #9
Dumbass is offline Dumbass  British Antarctic Territory
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On more of a philosophical note, just choose what you are most excited about, and run with it.

Don't expect it to be the "ultimate", but approach it with open mind and open ears. You will like some things, and find other things lacking, and it generally takes many months for those things to filter out in the mind.
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Old 31st August 2006, 05:08 PM   #10
hm is online now hm  Europe
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Default sunra

did you look at :

The horn-sat with B200, 98 dB from 150 Hz, no crossover!!
or the Saxophon, free download, with bass, fullrange.
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