I've been doing intensive researches of a fullranger for over two years now... and of course i couldn't find a conclusion, but i've managed to make an ideea of what I want.
I listen mainly classic rock and acoustic guitar, piano muzic (from led zeppelin, deep purple, rolling stones ac/dc to eric clapton, al di meola, santana, paco de lucia and then tori amos, loreena mckennit and so on), but jazz too. Quite a lot of genres, but not pop music, house and the rest... I'm telling you this because I think it's important in choosing a driver and a cabinet.
I must say that I will power them with a JFET ZV9 amp and that I am used mainly with bookshelf speakers (nothing bigger than 6,5'') and headphones (so maybe I won't feel a lack in bass...although I always wanted more bass from my bookshelfs )
So I have resumed to these options (my budget is somwhere between 300 and 400Eur for the drivers)
Even if I know FE108ez has a great midrange detail (and would do justice for vocals), I don't think a 4" driver is suitable for my kind of music taste...
1. Fostex FE168EZ in recomended BLH, or one of Terry's Cain designs.
2. Visaton B200 or Hemp FR8 in an Open Baffle. (for know this is my number one choise)
3. Fostex FE208+ tweeter
I must say that I am really intersted in Open Baffles...in fact the last option I am thinking (if i'll get more money) would be a supravox 215signature+ tweeter in OB...but for now I don't think it's possible.
Even if I am intersted in B200, I am afraid about the poore Xmax...don't know if it will cope with the music... The Fostex should be more detailed, and even if they have a small Xmax, I think beeing in BLH helps them a lot with bass. I know the best solution would be to use woofers from 150Hz down... but i'd like to try true fullrange for now.
If you think I won't get satisfying results (for the music I listen) with fullrangers, and I should go for a classic 2 way sistem (with scan-speak revelators drivers for example) in a tqwt or tl, please tell me
.
Now... what would you advise me to choose between all these? (I'm opened to new sugestions too).
I listen mainly classic rock and acoustic guitar, piano muzic (from led zeppelin, deep purple, rolling stones ac/dc to eric clapton, al di meola, santana, paco de lucia and then tori amos, loreena mckennit and so on), but jazz too. Quite a lot of genres, but not pop music, house and the rest... I'm telling you this because I think it's important in choosing a driver and a cabinet.
I must say that I will power them with a JFET ZV9 amp and that I am used mainly with bookshelf speakers (nothing bigger than 6,5'') and headphones (so maybe I won't feel a lack in bass...although I always wanted more bass from my bookshelfs )
So I have resumed to these options (my budget is somwhere between 300 and 400Eur for the drivers)
Even if I know FE108ez has a great midrange detail (and would do justice for vocals), I don't think a 4" driver is suitable for my kind of music taste...
1. Fostex FE168EZ in recomended BLH, or one of Terry's Cain designs.
2. Visaton B200 or Hemp FR8 in an Open Baffle. (for know this is my number one choise)
3. Fostex FE208+ tweeter
I must say that I am really intersted in Open Baffles...in fact the last option I am thinking (if i'll get more money) would be a supravox 215signature+ tweeter in OB...but for now I don't think it's possible.
Even if I am intersted in B200, I am afraid about the poore Xmax...don't know if it will cope with the music... The Fostex should be more detailed, and even if they have a small Xmax, I think beeing in BLH helps them a lot with bass. I know the best solution would be to use woofers from 150Hz down... but i'd like to try true fullrange for now.
If you think I won't get satisfying results (for the music I listen) with fullrangers, and I should go for a classic 2 way sistem (with scan-speak revelators drivers for example) in a tqwt or tl, please tell me
. Now... what would you advise me to choose between all these? (I'm opened to new sugestions too).
Hi, check out "Terry Cains BIB..." thread. It is a long one, have patience and read it. I have built a "small" version which are belching out 40 Hz in a 50 sqm office with a cheap mini stereo for about 70 Euro. Incredible speed and punch from a 4.5' 20 Euro driver. They are breaking in at my office and will go home after a couple of weeks. I made these out of curiousity after reading the thread. There will be more with better drivers, for sure...
Best Regards Peter
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
Best Regards Peter
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
Thank you for your replyes... unfortunately, there is a change in the plans
So I've settled down to fostex 168ez. I've read the BIB thread and I guess this would be the best enclosure for it. The problem is that for the next two or three years there's no way I'll have this kind of space in order to acomodate the BIB's. Not even for the 108, another driver than actually could be suitable for me, considering the lack of space.
I probably need a BLH. But as far as I know, planet10 didn't like the 168 in the fostex rec. enclosure (I hope I'm not mistaking). So what oder options do I have? I like de Fruegel horn...but I don't want a corner loaded horn... I need some bass extension with all kind of placement. Oh, and the enclosure will allmost sure be multilayer mdf. Just that I couldn't find something suitable yet..
Thanks,
Florin
So I've settled down to fostex 168ez. I've read the BIB thread and I guess this would be the best enclosure for it. The problem is that for the next two or three years there's no way I'll have this kind of space in order to acomodate the BIB's. Not even for the 108, another driver than actually could be suitable for me, considering the lack of space.
I probably need a BLH. But as far as I know, planet10 didn't like the 168 in the fostex rec. enclosure (I hope I'm not mistaking). So what oder options do I have? I like de Fruegel horn...but I don't want a corner loaded horn... I need some bass extension with all kind of placement. Oh, and the enclosure will allmost sure be multilayer mdf. Just that I couldn't find something suitable yet..
Thanks,
Florin
Hi
if you want to listen to Led Zep etc. on a fullrangedriver, I believe a BLH is the only option and any type of horn with some real bass extension will be big.
The BIB is a BLH and as AFAIK there is no other horn design that needs less space for a simular bass extension than the BIB - it's tall but has a small footprint.
best, LC
if you want to listen to Led Zep etc. on a fullrangedriver, I believe a BLH is the only option and any type of horn with some real bass extension will be big.
The BIB is a BLH and as AFAIK there is no other horn design that needs less space for a simular bass extension than the BIB - it's tall but has a small footprint.
best, LC
think "Foot print"
I'll echo what LC says about "size" of enclosure - if you can think about the area of floor space consumed by the enclosure, and any placement issues e.g. bipole or O/B, then the BIB are a very efficient package.
I heard Terry Cain's first prototype with Fostex driver back in 2001, (forget which exact model, but it's probably discontinued now anyway
). They work very well indeed, and tucked in a corner take up far less floor space than a Frugelhorn.
Dave (Planet10) & I have by now built several Fostex recommended enclosure designs ( the 103 BLH, 126 "hybrid", and 167 BR), but not the larger BLH for 168. None of them elicited the degree of performace from their intended drivers of any number of DIY designs (even an only slightly modified Buschhorn MKI). It may be closed minded of us, but that experience has dampened my enthusiasm to try another of the factory recommended designs. Maybe if they weren't so time consuming to fabricate ..... I was able to fabricate 2 pairs of the BH MKI in one long afternoon (granted I took a couple of short cuts ....)
If space is at a real premium, the Fonken for 127 is worth consideration - although XO at 80-100Hz and a sub would be required for maximum bass extension and SPL.
I'll echo what LC says about "size" of enclosure - if you can think about the area of floor space consumed by the enclosure, and any placement issues e.g. bipole or O/B, then the BIB are a very efficient package.
I heard Terry Cain's first prototype with Fostex driver back in 2001, (forget which exact model, but it's probably discontinued now anyway
). They work very well indeed, and tucked in a corner take up far less floor space than a Frugelhorn.Dave (Planet10) & I have by now built several Fostex recommended enclosure designs ( the 103 BLH, 126 "hybrid", and 167 BR), but not the larger BLH for 168. None of them elicited the degree of performace from their intended drivers of any number of DIY designs (even an only slightly modified Buschhorn MKI). It may be closed minded of us, but that experience has dampened my enthusiasm to try another of the factory recommended designs. Maybe if they weren't so time consuming to fabricate ..... I was able to fabricate 2 pairs of the BH MKI in one long afternoon (granted I took a couple of short cuts ....)
If space is at a real premium, the Fonken for 127 is worth consideration - although XO at 80-100Hz and a sub would be required for maximum bass extension and SPL.
Hi,
Thanks all for the reply. Well, I was aware of the fact that a BIB (horn) would have a smaller "footprint", and it is a very efficient package. I will try for sure some time in the future.
But in my case (at least for the moment), the BIB's are somehow inapropiate because of the height. That is why I am still considering a BLH... And by the way...i've just found this link (I don't know how I did forget about it). Of course this is for de 168S... but maybe the EZ could fit in.
less compromised horn
Another option would be to try to stick with the 108... but I guess I won't have any usable bottom-end... If i don;t find any optimal blh design, i think I'll go with the bib...
Thanks all for the reply. Well, I was aware of the fact that a BIB (horn) would have a smaller "footprint", and it is a very efficient package. I will try for sure some time in the future.
But in my case (at least for the moment), the BIB's are somehow inapropiate because of the height. That is why I am still considering a BLH... And by the way...i've just found this link (I don't know how I did forget about it). Of course this is for de 168S... but maybe the EZ could fit in.
less compromised horn
Another option would be to try to stick with the 108... but I guess I won't have any usable bottom-end... If i don;t find any optimal blh design, i think I'll go with the bib...
I listen to much of the same music as you and played it through Klipsch Cornwalls and Belles for almost 20 years. When I got the fullrange bug I went with the 206e fostex but I liked the 208sigma recomended BLH so thats what I built. I sold both pairs of Klipsch with no regrets. My 206-208 BLH may not go quite as low as the Cornwalls but it's better quality bass IMHO These cabs do have a bigger footprint than a BIB for the same driver though.
On more of a philosophical note, just choose what you are most excited about, and run with it.
Don't expect it to be the "ultimate", but approach it with open mind and open ears. You will like some things, and find other things lacking, and it generally takes many months for those things to filter out in the mind.
Don't expect it to be the "ultimate", but approach it with open mind and open ears. You will like some things, and find other things lacking, and it generally takes many months for those things to filter out in the mind.
sunra
did you look at :
http://www.hm-moreart.de/70.htm
The horn-sat with B200, 98 dB from 150 Hz, no crossover!!
or the Saxophon, free download, with bass, fullrange.
did you look at :
http://www.hm-moreart.de/70.htm
The horn-sat with B200, 98 dB from 150 Hz, no crossover!!
or the Saxophon, free download, with bass, fullrange.
Hello!
Thank you for your answers, and sorry for my late reply. Well, I think I've made my choise, and I'll probably concentrate on this design, although with some modifications:
Heruka horn
and here:
Heruka pic
The mods are mainly related to the fact that I intend do build this from layers of mdf, glued together, so the inner slopes will be more apropiated for a horn.
Although I find myself wondering to some Supravox drivers, I think this would be the best compromise so far...
Thank you for your answers, and sorry for my late reply. Well, I think I've made my choise, and I'll probably concentrate on this design, although with some modifications:
Heruka horn
and here:
Heruka pic
The mods are mainly related to the fact that I intend do build this from layers of mdf, glued together, so the inner slopes will be more apropiated for a horn.
Although I find myself wondering to some Supravox drivers, I think this would be the best compromise so far...
BLH for Hemp FR8
I've just finished BLH for Hemp 8" FR driver. I feel it should provide what you are looking for. Although, it would't go as low as BIB, the bass response is tight and punchy. It cuts out at about 65 Hz and drops ruther sharply from there. But, since it's an 8" driver, subjectively it feels stong and well ballanced. Records from Yes, Pink Floyd, Alan Parsons and the like were used during tuning of the damping arrangement.
The box has just a little smaller foot print than BIB (11.5"x17.5"), but is much shorter at 38.5". You can save about 2" more by eliminating the plinth.
This design is a modification of Tony Gee's Solo-206 horn, which in turn was a modified BK-20 from Fostex. Changes mainly were done to CC and front baffle, but there are more. It was done for E-Speakers and is available through that web site: http://www.e-speakers.com/. Scroll a little down, past Visaton and Pioneer drivers.
The price of the package is not cheap, but you will get full set of drawings (every part with it's own drawing, and there are quite a bit of parts) and assembly instuctions with pictures.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.
VadimB
I've just finished BLH for Hemp 8" FR driver. I feel it should provide what you are looking for. Although, it would't go as low as BIB, the bass response is tight and punchy. It cuts out at about 65 Hz and drops ruther sharply from there. But, since it's an 8" driver, subjectively it feels stong and well ballanced. Records from Yes, Pink Floyd, Alan Parsons and the like were used during tuning of the damping arrangement.
The box has just a little smaller foot print than BIB (11.5"x17.5"), but is much shorter at 38.5". You can save about 2" more by eliminating the plinth.
This design is a modification of Tony Gee's Solo-206 horn, which in turn was a modified BK-20 from Fostex. Changes mainly were done to CC and front baffle, but there are more. It was done for E-Speakers and is available through that web site: http://www.e-speakers.com/. Scroll a little down, past Visaton and Pioneer drivers.
The price of the package is not cheap, but you will get full set of drawings (every part with it's own drawing, and there are quite a bit of parts) and assembly instuctions with pictures.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.
VadimB
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