Dave,
In looking at the sketch, can I assume you have given up on the wedgie version? It's really not that hard to build, but after building that version, I can see some advantages to having the fully tapered version (mainly for experimenting with damping).
Also, did you get my email concerning the plan's measurements? If not, I can send it again.
Doug
In looking at the sketch, can I assume you have given up on the wedgie version? It's really not that hard to build, but after building that version, I can see some advantages to having the fully tapered version (mainly for experimenting with damping).
Also, did you get my email concerning the plan's measurements? If not, I can send it again.
Doug
Taperwood said:
Doug,
Not at all... i still think wedgie is the premium implementation, but it is a bit trickier to make and can be a bit of a trial to get the pointed wedge cut-out.
With the 1st flat-packs the CNC makes short work of the base version, and we wanted to keep them as simple as possible to build.
I do, haven't had a chance to do much with it yet. One question -- when you are talking about the CC vol you do mean cubic inches and not squared as you wrote?
(you did -- i just added a note to FH6 to the effect of the larger chamber in the wedgie.
dave
Frugel-Horn plans have been updated with the glitches/omissions Doug documented.
Real errors were all caused by a slightly misshappened top piece on the Wedgie (17mm instead of 18)
Other differences where due to lack of detail on my part.
The bit about pieces E F & G has me a bit mystified because that part is exactly the same as the non-wedgie version.
dave
Real errors were all caused by a slightly misshappened top piece on the Wedgie (17mm instead of 18)
Other differences where due to lack of detail on my part.
The bit about pieces E F & G has me a bit mystified because that part is exactly the same as the non-wedgie version.
dave
A few questions.
So I'm looking at how much ply I'll need... you said a few pages back that you can manage to squeak 2 horns out of one 5'x5' sheet of ply.
I can't for the life of me figure out how! Unless you meant only the Level 0 version... Happen to have a cut-sheet?
Can I get away with 1/2" 7-ply Birch, or is that asking for trouble? Mine aren't going to be cranked to high volumes, so I won't be putting huge vibrational stresses on 'em.
Also I'm considering cantilevering it somewhat, as suggested earlier in the thread. Like so: image link. (attached to post as well.) I'll glue it and screw it into the base from the bottom with nice long wood-screws. Any comments/concerns?
So I'm looking at how much ply I'll need... you said a few pages back that you can manage to squeak 2 horns out of one 5'x5' sheet of ply.
I can't for the life of me figure out how! Unless you meant only the Level 0 version... Happen to have a cut-sheet?
Can I get away with 1/2" 7-ply Birch, or is that asking for trouble? Mine aren't going to be cranked to high volumes, so I won't be putting huge vibrational stresses on 'em.
Also I'm considering cantilevering it somewhat, as suggested earlier in the thread. Like so: image link. (attached to post as well.) I'll glue it and screw it into the base from the bottom with nice long wood-screws. Any comments/concerns?
Attachments
klocwerk said:
The inner panels are 1/2" (12mm) the front, side, top & bottom are 18mm. You could build it of all 1/2". If you rebate the driver you might to double that up.
That should work... you could further improve it by extending it to underneath the deflector andsand fill theat and it should make sure nothing moves. You might well be able to lose the front part of the bass completely.
dave
planet10 said:
I made the wedgies by gluing blanks of 3/4 and 1/2" stock and then cutting to thickness on the tablesaw. I then cut to length and width and drew out the angles in pencil and cut on a bandsaw. Easy as pie. Took about 20 minutes once the glue was dry.
Yes, I meant cubic inches.
planet10 said:
I'm mystified as well. However, the overall cabinet dimensions are different, so I'm sure that plays a part. Some of what I pointed out I discovered when I was re-reading the plans and rechecking all my dimensions to make sure I was not off in my build. Another pair will have to be built to be absolutely sure (of which I heartily volunteer). They're fun speakers to build.
Doug
Well crap.
I just took my new set of 126E's and held them roughly where they'd go in relation to my TV set.
BWONG! gausification. I thought they'd be far enough out to avoid any effects, but apparently not.
What tweaks do i need to make to the CC in order to use a pair of 127's instead? or is that simply not recomended for the Frugel, and I should find a 127 based horn project?
*edit*
or is there another shielded full-range that would work well in the FH?
I just took my new set of 126E's and held them roughly where they'd go in relation to my TV set.
BWONG! gausification. I thought they'd be far enough out to avoid any effects, but apparently not.
What tweaks do i need to make to the CC in order to use a pair of 127's instead? or is that simply not recomended for the Frugel, and I should find a 127 based horn project?
*edit*
or is there another shielded full-range that would work well in the FH?
klocwerk said:
Yup, those honking big magnets can play havoc with a CRT display!
IINM, there may have been a couple of builders us 127E's in the FH, but I'd personally suspect the FR will not be as neutrally balanced as with the type driver for which it was optimized.
If circumstances force you to use the shielded drivers, and you've not already cut material for the horns, you could consider any of several other designs posted on Dave's site that are proven to work well with the 127E i.e the PAWO, Fonken, or Mileva (new design for Mass Loaded Voight Pipe). I've built several of the first 2 named, and will shortly complete my first pair of the last. The PAWO and Mileva are floorstanders, the Fonken needs a stand.
While the Frugel horn outshines any of the monopole 127E based designs I've yet heard,(i.e. none of the SPAWN BVR family) the 3 listed above are still quite satisfying. Of these the Mileva is by far the easiest build, and according to my source on the subject, has high WAF, since it's not 60" tall with dual gaping mouths!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1165427&stamp=1174597699
you can build som shields...
you will need some iron or steel pipe with a large enough ID to fir over the magnet. Then you need to cut a couple of iron or steel plates to fit the pipe. Weld the plates in place (spot weld is ok) fit the iron can over the magnet and epoxie into place. Done like dinner. Regards.
you will need some iron or steel pipe with a large enough ID to fir over the magnet. Then you need to cut a couple of iron or steel plates to fit the pipe. Weld the plates in place (spot weld is ok) fit the iron can over the magnet and epoxie into place. Done like dinner. Regards.
I suspect the DIY shielding of iron pipe would affect the driver parameters enough that it would make more sense to go with the 127E.
Has anyone tried this? Any reports of sound quality before vs. after?
---
I haven't cut anything yet, but one of the main draws of the frugel for me was that it fit EXACTLY in the space I need it to. A shallow-wide box will not work where the frugels were going. So I can start from scratch with a design based on a shielded driver, but unless it's the same footprint as the frugel, the WAF will be very low.
---
I'm wondering if I can refold the horn and place the driver low enough that it doesn't interfere with the tv. Tilt it back slightly to hit ear level at 10'... That's a lot of redesigning though.
Has anyone tried this? Any reports of sound quality before vs. after?
---
I haven't cut anything yet, but one of the main draws of the frugel for me was that it fit EXACTLY in the space I need it to. A shallow-wide box will not work where the frugels were going. So I can start from scratch with a design based on a shielded driver, but unless it's the same footprint as the frugel, the WAF will be very low.
---
I'm wondering if I can refold the horn and place the driver low enough that it doesn't interfere with the tv. Tilt it back slightly to hit ear level at 10'... That's a lot of redesigning though.
Greets!
Go Industrial Chic with the styling. Have a local metal shop shear you some 12 ga CRS sheets that are big enough to cover the top and side facing the TV. Paint optional.
I've laid 2T 15" cinema bass horn drivers on TVs with no ill effect by just laying a scrap of this on top with it overhanging the CRT.
GM
Go Industrial Chic with the styling. Have a local metal shop shear you some 12 ga CRS sheets that are big enough to cover the top and side facing the TV. Paint optional.
I've laid 2T 15" cinema bass horn drivers on TVs with no ill effect by just laying a scrap of this on top with it overhanging the CRT.
GM
you can eat your cake...
placing a shield on the 126 will shift the driver only a little as you are only dealing with the stray flux that is escaping the existing motor structure. Any shift you might have to deal with will be far smaller thn the shift you will get by switching to an fe127e. You might even be able to get away using a tin can over the magnet assembly. I would suggest that you try that first before you invest in a project. It might just get the job done for nothing.
I have made shields like the one I suggested and they worked just fine, I did not notice any difference in the speaker. Regards.
placing a shield on the 126 will shift the driver only a little as you are only dealing with the stray flux that is escaping the existing motor structure. Any shift you might have to deal with will be far smaller thn the shift you will get by switching to an fe127e. You might even be able to get away using a tin can over the magnet assembly. I would suggest that you try that first before you invest in a project. It might just get the job done for nothing.
I have made shields like the one I suggested and they worked just fine, I did not notice any difference in the speaker. Regards.
klocwerk said:
The answer to the question about FE127 is still not definitive. Josh in Atlanta has built 2 sets (actally 1 + a friend built a set after he heard them) with FE127 and they are quite happy with them. They built with the smaller chamber, but i would recommend starting with the larger and filling it up with blocks unti you hit the seet spot.
The alternative is to shield the TV or the FE126. I noted as i paged back to this question that Moray has some pointers on this subject, i'll read that post before i comment further.
dave
Banned
Joined 2002
jleaman said:
No. to shield a magnet you need something that sucks up or redirects the magnetic flux. A magnet field will pass thru Al or Cu more or less untouched.
Fortunately the advent of the flat panel spells a day sometime soon (i hope for me personally anyway) when worrying about driving CRTs nuts will be a thing of the past.
dave
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