The Frugel-Horn Project

[Taperwood]

Dave,

In looking at the sketch, can I assume you have given up on the wedgie version? It's really not that hard to build, but after building that version, I can see some advantages to having the fully tapered version (mainly for experimenting with damping).

Also, did you get my email concerning the plan's measurements? If not, I can send it again.

Doug

[planet10]

Originally posted by Taperwood
In looking at the sketch, can I assume you have given up on the wedgie version? It's really not that hard to build, but after building that version, I can see some advantages to having the fully tapered version (mainly for experimenting with damping).

Doug,

Not at all... i still think wedgie is the premium implementation, but it is a bit trickier to make and can be a bit of a trial to get the pointed wedge cut-out.

With the 1st flat-packs the CNC makes short work of the base version, and we wanted to keep them as simple as possible to build.

Also, did you get my email concerning the plan's measurements?

I do, haven't had a chance to do much with it yet. One question -- when you are talking about the CC vol you do mean cubic inches and not squared as you wrote?

(you did -- i just added a note to FH6 to the effect of the larger chamber in the wedgie.

dave

[planet10]

Frugel-Horn plans have been updated with the glitches/omissions Doug documented.

Real errors were all caused by a slightly misshappened top piece on the Wedgie (17mm instead of 18)

Other differences where due to lack of detail on my part.

The bit about pieces E F & G has me a bit mystified because that part is exactly the same as the non-wedgie version.

dave

[klocwerk]

A few questions.

So I'm looking at how much ply I'll need... you said a few pages back that you can manage to squeak 2 horns out of one 5'x5' sheet of ply.
I can't for the life of me figure out how! Unless you meant only the Level 0 version... Happen to have a cut-sheet?

Can I get away with 1/2" 7-ply Birch, or is that asking for trouble? Mine aren't going to be cranked to high volumes, so I won't be putting huge vibrational stresses on 'em.

Also I'm considering cantilevering it somewhat, as suggested earlier in the thread. Like so: image link. (attached to post as well.) I'll glue it and screw it into the base from the bottom with nice long wood-screws. Any comments/concerns?

[planet10]

Originally posted by klocwerk
So I'm looking at how much ply I'll need... you said a few pages back that you can manage to squeak 2 horns out of one 5'x5' sheet of ply. ....

Can I get away with 1/2" 7-ply Birch, or is that asking for trouble?

The inner panels are 1/2" (12mm) the front, side, top & bottom are 18mm. You could build it of all 1/2". If you rebate the driver you might to double that up.

Also I'm considering cantilevering it somewhat, as suggested earlier in the thread. Like so: image link. (attached to post as well.) I'll glue it and screw it into the base from the bottom with nice long wood-screws. Any comments/concerns?

That should work... you could further improve it by extending it to underneath the deflector andsand fill theat and it should make sure nothing moves. You might well be able to lose the front part of the bass completely.

dave

[klocwerk]

Originally posted by planet10 The inner panels are 1/2" (12mm) the front, side, top & bottom are 18mm. You could build it of all 1/2". If you rebate the driver you might to double that up.

I was thinking I'd still do the fronts out of 18mm, but the rest out of 1/2". Should be far more frugal that way.
I'm probably not going with the SupraBaffle due to space constraints and WAF issues, would rebating the drivers help me compensate for the lack of baffles? I may be able to design in an oversized front to get some of the effect...

Originally posted by planet10

That should work... you could further improve it by extending it to underneath the deflector and sand fill that and it should make sure nothing moves. You might well be able to lose the front part of the bass completely.

I had considered that, but I'm still not certain if I'll be able to add the deflectors. Gotta do some measurements of the living room. If I can pull it off, I'll definitely lose the front piece of the base.

Thanks again Dave!

[Taperwood]

Originally posted by planet10


Doug,

Not at all... i still think wedgie is the premium implementation, but it is a bit trickier to make and can be a bit of a trial to get the pointed wedge cut-out.

I do, haven't had a chance to do much with it yet. One question -- when you are talking about the CC vol you do mean cubic inches and not squared as you wrote?

(you did -- i just added a note to FH6 to the effect of the larger chamber in the wedgie.

dave

I made the wedgies by gluing blanks of 3/4 and 1/2" stock and then cutting to thickness on the tablesaw. I then cut to length and width and drew out the angles in pencil and cut on a bandsaw. Easy as pie. Took about 20 minutes once the glue was dry.

Yes, I meant cubic inches.

Originally posted by planet10
Frugel-Horn plans have been updated with the glitches/omissions Doug documented.

Real errors were all caused by a slightly misshappened top piece on the Wedgie (17mm instead of 18)

Other differences where due to lack of detail on my part.

The bit about pieces E F & G has me a bit mystified because that part is exactly the same as the non-wedgie version.

dave

I'm mystified as well. However, the overall cabinet dimensions are different, so I'm sure that plays a part. Some of what I pointed out I discovered when I was re-reading the plans and rechecking all my dimensions to make sure I was not off in my build. Another pair will have to be built to be absolutely sure (of which I heartily volunteer). They're fun speakers to build.

Doug

[planet10]

Originally posted by Taperwood
Another pair will have to be built to be absolutely sure (of which I heartily volunteer). They're fun speakers to build.

[klocwerk]

Well crap.

I just took my new set of 126E's and held them roughly where they'd go in relation to my TV set.
BWONG! gausification. I thought they'd be far enough out to avoid any effects, but apparently not.

What tweaks do i need to make to the CC in order to use a pair of 127's instead? or is that simply not recomended for the Frugel, and I should find a 127 based horn project?

*edit*
or is there another shielded full-range that would work well in the FH?

[chrisb]

Originally posted by klocwerk
Well crap.

I just took my new set of 126E's and held them roughly where they'd go in relation to my TV set.
BWONG! gausification. I thought they'd be far enough out to avoid any effects, but apparently not.

What tweaks do i need to make to the CC in order to use a pair of 127's instead? or is that simply not recomended for the Frugel, and I should find a 127 based horn project?

*edit*
or is there another shielded full-range that would work well in the FH?

Yup, those honking big magnets can play havoc with a CRT display!


IINM, there may have been a couple of builders us 127E's in the FH, but I'd personally suspect the FR will not be as neutrally balanced as with the type driver for which it was optimized.

If circumstances force you to use the shielded drivers, and you've not already cut material for the horns, you could consider any of several other designs posted on Dave's site that are proven to work well with the 127E i.e the PAWO, Fonken, or Mileva (new design for Mass Loaded Voight Pipe). I've built several of the first 2 named, and will shortly complete my first pair of the last. The PAWO and Mileva are floorstanders, the Fonken needs a stand.

While the Frugel horn outshines any of the monopole 127E based designs I've yet heard,(i.e. none of the SPAWN BVR family) the 3 listed above are still quite satisfying. Of these the Mileva is by far the easiest build, and according to my source on the subject, has high WAF, since it's not 60" tall with dual gaping mouths!

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attac...amp=1174597699