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Old 23rd December 2009, 06:20 AM   #1091
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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The Frugel-Horn Project
Look familiar?

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http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/newre...te=1&p=1918491

5 items down as of this posting.

Could a Croatian member contact these guys in their native language and get more info?

dave
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Old 13th January 2010, 09:26 PM   #1092
Netdewt is offline Netdewt  United States
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I'm learning about the frugel horns. I'd love to build a pair of these. Could I get an approximate build cost for the level 0?

I've been building up my system. Right now I have crappy garage sale speakers. My primary speaker option so far has been Klipsch's, but I'm having a hard time finding them used. Will these do well with a 40W tube amp?

The build seems relatively easy. I have a mitre saw, table saw, circular saw, etc... any other necessary tools?

Thanks much.
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Old 13th January 2010, 09:46 PM   #1093
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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I think these take 2 sheets of BB (say $100), + a pair of FE126e (~$100) or FE126eN ($200-$250), plus bits & bobs like wire, binding posts etc.

So say $250-$450 before finish.

dave
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Old 13th January 2010, 09:49 PM   #1094
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netdewt View Post
I'm learning about the frugel horns. I'd love to build a pair of these. Could I get an approximate build cost for the level 0?
2 major factors

- which drivers? - my own several builds have been exclusively with Fostex, ( FE126E mostly with the EnABL treatment), other folks have been happy with FE108E Sigmas, and other makes as well.

- type of material & finish - as is clear from the first few dozen pages of the thread, there's some difference of opinion as to the "best" material for these boxes. personally, I'd recommend 15mm Baltic Birch plywood


Quote:
I've been building up my system. Right now I have crappy garage sale speakers. My primary speaker option so far has been Klipsch's, but I'm having a hard time finding them used. Will these do well with a 40W tube amp?
With something like the FE126E ( sens = ~93dB @ "1 watt"), 40 watts of tube power should be more than adequate - I'm quite happy listening the them with approx 10% of that power. The sonic signature of the amp won't have much place to hide.

Quote:

The build seems relatively easy. I have a mitre saw, table saw, circular saw, etc... any other necessary tools?

Thanks much.
patience ( a vital component in any DIYer's tool kit, and one I frequently find in short supply) , and clamps

lotsa clamps

(I cheat and use an air powered brad nailer whenever possible, and fill and veneer the enclosures)
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Old 14th January 2010, 02:36 AM   #1095
Netdewt is offline Netdewt  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
I think these take 2 sheets of BB (say $100), + a pair of FE126e (~$100) or FE126eN ($200-$250), plus bits & bobs like wire, binding posts etc.

So say $250-$450 before finish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
2 major factors

- which drivers? - my own several builds have been exclusively with Fostex, ( FE126E mostly with the EnABL treatment), other folks have been happy with FE108E Sigmas, and other makes as well.

- type of material & finish - as is clear from the first few dozen pages of the thread, there's some difference of opinion as to the "best" material for these boxes. personally, I'd recommend 15mm Baltic Birch plywood

With something like the FE126E ( sens = ~93dB @ "1 watt"), 40 watts of tube power should be more than adequate - I'm quite happy listening the them with approx 10% of that power. The sonic signature of the amp won't have much place to hide.
Baltic birch... I'm guessing you have to find a special supplier for that. Is this what people mean when they say "BB"? By sheets do you mean 4'x8'? Or whetever that is in meters.

I think I'd definitely do the FE126e's to start and switch them out or do my own treatment later. Is something like this a good match for my 40W push-pull (Jolida 202A)? Everything I've read says horns+tubes=good.

Why veneer? Is the bare wood not nice looking? Or is it because of glue spills?
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Old 14th January 2010, 02:53 PM   #1096
Netdewt is offline Netdewt  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
With something like the FE126E ( sens = ~93dB @ "1 watt"), 40 watts of tube power should be more than adequate - I'm quite happy listening the them with approx 10% of that power. The sonic signature of the amp won't have much place to hide.
Additionally, is my room right for these? I would have to do some rearranging and wife-convincing to get them into true corners without a couch in front of one of the speakers. It's smallish living room (15x20) with one 8 foot opening to the rest of the house.

I have an office, but I'd really like everything to be in the common area, so my whole family can enjoy it.

Also, I was going to mention, in the future I am inclined to build some SET monos, so these seem to be a logical, somewhat future-proof choice.
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Old 15th January 2010, 05:42 PM   #1097
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netdewt View Post
Additionally, is my room right for these? I would have to do some rearranging and wife-convincing to get them into true corners without a couch in front of one of the speakers. It's smallish living room (15x20) with one 8 foot opening to the rest of the house.

I have an office, but I'd really like everything to be in the common area, so my whole family can enjoy it.
While perhaps not entirely dependent on perfect location in corners for decent performance, from my experience with FE126E in what I'll call the "3 half sisters" ( BH MkI, Hornshoppe Horns and several levels of Frugelhorn build), I'd suggest that more or less symmetrical placement in respect to room boundaries and not obscuring either with furniture would be a minimal goal.

With the amount of available power and the room placement issues you describe that might preclude the above, I could suggest a couple of other enclosure designs and driver choices - utilizing either FE127E, or one of the wonderful Mark Audio drivers (CHR70/EL70 or Alpair 6 or 7).

I know for a fact that a pair of EL70's per side can fill a 16x30 ft open plan living/dining-room quite nicely with a 30 watt Sony receiver, and sound even more glorious and 3-dimensional with the right tube amp.





Quote:

Also, I was going to mention, in the future I am inclined to build some SET monos, so these seem to be a logical, somewhat future-proof choice.
I'd never want to discourage anyone from trying a SET amp (which can vary in signature and personality as much as fullrange speaker systems), but achieving a "future-proof" system will be rather difficult.
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Old 15th January 2010, 09:07 PM   #1098
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netdewt View Post
Baltic birch... I'm guessing you have to find a special supplier for that. Is this what people mean when they say "BB"? By sheets do you mean 4'x8'? Or whetever that is in meters.
yes, I think you'll find that BB generally refers to Baltic Birch plywood

the default sheet size of of the product I've been using for the past 5 or 6 years is 5ftxft or 1.524m square

as has been discussed before, there are other generic names used to describe this class of plywoods - "Russian, Finnish" birch and "ApplePly which is actually a trademarked brand name

many of these products are available in the more standard 4x8ft sheets

Quote:

I think I'd definitely do the FE126e's to start and switch them out or do my own treatment later. Is something like this a good match for my 40W push-pull (Jolida 202A)? Everything I've read says horns+tubes=good.
possibly, but not guaranteed

Quote:

Why veneer? Is the bare wood not nice looking? Or is it because of glue spills?
a combination of several reasons
- the "utility grade" of BB ply is not always free of cosmetic defects such as mineral stains and patched knot repairs on the veneer faces, and except for clear coat finishes, it can be a bear to stain
- a little glue seepage is pretty hard to avoid
- even though it's possible to fill and sand the grain pores of exposed ply edges, I'm just not a fan of the look, and prefer the more finished look you can get with veneers...

planet_10 hifi


a bit more involved than a basic level 1 build:

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Old 8th February 2010, 09:20 PM   #1099
Netdewt is offline Netdewt  United States
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I bought some Klipsch KG4s on Craigslist instead of pursuing this project immediately, but I am still impressed with the Frugel-horn in general and I'd really love to build some of these. It can't hurt to have some extra speakers (my wife will think I'm nuts, of course).

I took a peek at Lowe's and they have 4' x 8' x 3/4" birch plywood. It did not say if it is solid birch though, which made me concerned that it's pine with a birch veneer. I didn't see "Baltic" on the tag anywhere either. I'll have to keep searching.
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Old 8th February 2010, 09:26 PM   #1100
doorman is offline doorman  Canada
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Most "standard" plywood has fewer plys than BB for the same given thickness.
The Frugels are a satisfying speaker, with stunning imaging &c.
Don

Last edited by doorman; 8th February 2010 at 09:30 PM.
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