The Frugel-Horn Project

[brendanr]

Originally Posted by Scottmoose

How about not trying to take the shine off it

It would take far more than a few negative comments to achieve that right now, especially as I'm listening to them whilst typing, but thanks. I will be building the wedgie version shortly.

Brsanko, at this time I'm not particularly interested in learning a software package to design my own speakers, but if you have designed (or better yet built) a compound horn based on the FE126e I'd love to see the plans.

[Scottmoose]

Just to add, as it happens, I like compound horns & their variations, although they can be somewhat more complicated to design / build & I don't regard them as an automatic necessity in all times & in all cases. Done properly, they can work extremely well of course.

The FH is certainly not perfect, which is why the intention is to eventually heavily revise / replace it when time permits. Frankly, were I to design one myself, I'd modify the objectives; either keeping the box the same size & change the sonic goal[s], or visa versa. However, I'd say calling the existing design a waste of drivers is excessive. The fact is, a lot have been built, and most builders have been happy with them. Given that you can't please everyone all the time, that's a result. Yes, it's very true that some other designs are ultimately be more capable in x y z areas, but the initial design criteria of the FH was to fit a very specific configuration, and within this context, it does rather well.

[brsanko]

Well I must say when we built the Frugel horns (our first horn project) they were far and above better than anything we had heard previously(Bass reflex or Acoustic Suspension). And yes yours look very nice.

[brsanko]

I just want to encourage everyone to try designing compound horns with Hornresp. It's not as difficult as everyone imagines, and the results can be amazing. The reason I am so gung ho about them is they allow you to get the full dynamic range out of your speakers. The first horn we designed using Hornresp was concieved as a simple FE126E RLH with the dynamics in the bass maximized. but when we listened to it the mid and high frequencies were all but drowned out. So we added the front horn and wow everything came into balance and the dynamics were so amazing I never wanted to listen to anything again. Sorry I don't want to take over this thread or rain on anyone's parade but I have found the method that brought my nirvana and now I can't shut up about it.

[Pit Hinder]

brsanko - <when we built the Frugel horns (our first horn project)>

Welcome to the ward. My first horns were some 25+ years ago and I still have a sore spot where my jaw hit the floor.

[Scottmoose]

They can have that effect for a lot of people.

Re the compound business, as GM points out earlier in the thread, if you design for the highest gain practical within the bass (back) horn's BW, then typically you'll either have to damp it down to ~match the efficiency of the driver, or raise forward output SPLs via a short midrange horn, which should also help balance things if the driver exhibits a rise in its own output somewhere higher up the frequency band. No bad thing & often works very well.

Of course, if you want to maximise dynamics etc., then a 'proper' (front) horn with a compression chamber is the optimal way of doing it, but with FR drivers you'd need to support it with dedicated woofers etc. as a full-scale bass-horn is almost certain to be impractical.

[Pit Hinder]

"Maximize dynamics" - Scott, you and GM and my using AJHorn - a marriage made in an asylum!

GM never minds having a surplus of SPL, you Brits make do with everything that works (including some ships that theoretically can´t...) and my current 5 m^2 workshop somehow limits my zeal.

According to sims, 206 in a Sachiko redesigned to exponential (Herman the German) gives you 106dB up to 100Hz, the 206 gets up to there at ~1500...but I b****y can´t be a***d to design a front horn to fill the gap.

OK, I´m sober at the moment. I might rethink

[mp9]

"Sachiko redesigned to exponential" i'd like to see those build plans.

[brsanko]

Well we have built several compound horns with very wide range using a compression chamber on both sides of the driver with Excellent mid and treble response and great bass down to 40 to 50hz in a reasonable size. In fact we built one monstrosity (8 cu ft) with absolute full range (20hz-20khz) using a fair amount of EQ and 4 of the aforementioned Aiwa drivers per side. They will make fantastic stage speakers. I imagine they would be difficult to design without software but hornresp makes it so easy. You just have to compare the combined response with the open baffel response to see how much gain you're getting in the higher frequencies and then compare that to the published or measured speaker response to get a good idea of mid and high frequency response.

[brsanko]

Originally Posted by brendanr

if you have designed (or better yet built) a compound horn based on the FE126e I'd love to see the plans.

If you look at this thread it has the hornresp data and pictures of the speakers. Like I said in the thread the design is not mine so I don't have plans per se but it'll give you the idea.
first try at designing our own horns