Digital amps and single driver speakers, opinions? - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th March 2006, 04:40 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bremerton, WA.
Default Digital amps and single driver speakers, opinions?

My amp is dying 21 years of great service, but I'm now in the market for something new.

Without getting really technical, I'm talking Class D-like. i.e. Panny XR's, Sonic Impact, Ice, Hypex, Gainclones, Tripath, etc. What do people say about these and single driver speakers? Many say the digital amps are bright, so mixed with the often rising response in single drivers, could this be a recipe for trouble? I've already read quite a bit here on the Class-D forum. I might try DIY'ing one.

Any real world experience with single drivers? I must admit, they are cheap, especially the Sonic Impact. I was thinking of getting the Panny so I could use it double duty with TV and DVD's.

Doug
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2006, 05:57 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wisconsin....what did you expect?
Send a message via AIM to Spasticteapot
First, digital is relative. (Class-D amps work via PWM, which is sort of digital; Chip-Amps are essentially really nasty solid-state amps that work much better than they have any right to.)
Decibel Dungeon (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/decdun/) has some information on chip-amps; the tube-buffered non-inverted gainclone on his site is supposed to be absolute audio excellence; BrianGT's chip amps are supposed to be quite good too, and a good value for the dollar. (80$ for his top-of-the-line kit, not including transformers and pots.)
Alternately, if you want to go DIY, Decibel Dungeon features CarlosFM's snubberized chip-amp, which is a very nice tube-free solution.
Second, although I can't compare them, the T-amp and GainClone are both supposed to have excellent sound. However, the gainclone is MUCH more powerful, and can be built to your exact specifications. The T-amp, on the other hand, can be run off of a 12-volt battery, but requires very high efficiency speakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2006, 02:06 PM   #3
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bavarian Forest
I am using a Panasonic because it is more detailed, dynamic and neutral than the T-Amp, but that`s a matter of taste. If you are a tube person you may like the Tripath better. An objective advantage of the panasonic is the higher wattage and the volume control via changing the rail voltage of the output transistors, making it suitable for a wide range of speaker sensitivities. By the way, sensitivity can also be too high for the Tripath. I had very limited dynamic range with Ciare CH250 (4Ohm, 96dB ^= 8Ohm 99dB). A fullranger is a good thing, because the output filter of the amp interferes with mid/high x-over. For conventional speakers better use concepts with post-filter feedback like UCD.

I hope I could answer some of your questions.
Regards, Oliver
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2006, 02:07 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bremerton, WA.
Thanks Teapot for that overview. What I am actually getting at is what someone who builds or designs high-efficiency single driver speakers has experienced in the way of sound with these newer types of amps. I've heard generally positive things in the amp forums themselves, but I really would like to hear someone's perspective from the loudspeaker side.

I will go on record right now saying that I believe these types of amps will revolutionize audio over the next ten years. Love 'em or hate 'em, they will be like the CD. I figure now that I need an amp, I might as well get used to it.

Doug
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2006, 02:12 PM   #5
konut is offline konut  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
You might want to take a look at this http://www.redwineaudio.com/. Vinnie Rossi works with Louis Chochos, who is Omega speakers and specializes in single driver speakers. Vinnie mods Tripath amps as found in the SI and Teac amps. He is coming out with a signature amp that utilizes custom chips from Tripath soon. Both these guys have their own forums on the Audiocircles site. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2006, 02:22 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Doug

Tread lightly with what you say. Many folks feel the CD ruined audio and it has no place in high end. No, I don't abide by that.

I'll just add my 2 cents here...I have an Audio Zone prototype, (final production piece is similar to the 47 Labs Gaincard, but it uses higher-end components). Again, mine is a prototype and comes in at 40 watts.

I also have a little Sonic Impact amp. I had the Welborne Labs 300Bs, which are excellent amps.

Short version, I tried the Sonic Impact and liked the upper end extension. I knew I was missing something, but didn't realize how much. Didn't love the amp, pretty dry and SS sounding. Kept the 300Bs going until I came across the Audio Zone. This one is a keeper, much more authority and extension while still being smooth.

As of now, I have the Audio Zone. If you're looking around, look into the Scott Nixon amps and the Red Wine Audio amps. Both very good.

Check out the original Sonic Impact review on 6moons.com in their review archives. It's a bit over hyped, in my opinion, but gives you an idea. They mate it with Terry Cain's single driver speakers, (works of art).

I've heard good things about the Panasonic. Lots of options, best of luck.

Layne
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2006, 02:25 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bremerton, WA.
Quote:
Originally posted by el`Ol
By the way, sensitivity can also be too high for the Tripath. I had very limited dynamic range with Ciare CH250 (4Ohm, 96dB ^= 8Ohm 99dB). A fullranger is a good thing, because the output filter of the amp interferes with mid/high x-over. For conventional speakers better use concepts with post-filter feedback like UCD.

I hope I could answer some of your questions.
Regards, Oliver
Thanks, Oliver.

That's interesting re sensitivity. I've never heard that. I'll certainly keep that in mind. I've often wondered if cabinet damping, etc., might need to be adjusted with these amps.

So you are also saying that fullrangers actually benefit from your panny?

Doug
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2006, 02:34 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
maxlorenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: osorno , Chile
Quote:
Many say the digital amps are bright, so mixed with the often rising response in single drivers, could this be a recipe for trouble?
I'm probably the least indicated to give an opinion here as I don't currently own a true fullrange, but, please consider that I have heard noone that found Hypex' UCD amp "bright". On the contrary, many think that the first time they heard UCD's they thought about a lack of HF extension, finally concluding that HF response was totally correct and natural sounding.

On other hand, UCD modules are "load-independent" with very low output impedance, in such a way that they extract the possiblities of the driver on low fequencies, giving a very detailed and articulated performance.
I used my UCD400 to drive these:

My first Tannoy Autograph

These have dwarf drivers (in fact, my test speakers) and nobody believes the bass output from them. I have a friend who is teacher in Physics at a prestigious University here that could not believe it either and just listened to them in complete silence
I am waiting for the drivers to build true Autograph and also a 1:2 replica with probably Fostex FE206E, to join the club

I hope this helps.
M
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2006, 02:42 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bremerton, WA.
Konut: Yes, I've followed Vinnie's work from day one. I'm happy for his success. Never heard one of his amps, though.

1Speed: True. CD's were a freight train. Have you heard the new Super-T amp from Sonic Impact? It claims they've solved the bass extension problem in the original, but I really would like to hear more.

FYI: My amp of 21 years is (was) an Onkyo Integra A-8087, solid state, 100 wpc. A highly regarded mid-fi amp in it's day. I figure it has about 80,000 hours on it.

Doug
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2006, 02:50 PM   #10
GM is offline GM  United States
diyAudio Member
 
GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chamblee, Ga.
Greets!

FYI: http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/measure/

GM
__________________
Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Efficient Single Driver Bookshelf Speakers pjanda1 Swap Meet 2 7th July 2009 10:43 PM
Why do you prefer single driver speakers? Taterworks Full Range 42 4th July 2007 12:21 AM
How do single driver (read loaded) horn speakers actually sound? hugz Full Range 37 6th March 2006 01:51 AM
single driver speakers sil Full Range 10 25th June 2005 02:22 AM
How to switch single pair speakers across multiple amps? ransom peek Multi-Way 0 21st February 2005 03:30 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:17 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2