Hello,
I have 2 fostex fe206e drivers on the way. Im a complete speaker building newbie but am attracted by the simplicity of a single driver speaker.
Could anyone advise of recommended easy to construct enclosures for the fe206e and where I can obtain plans? What type of enclosure produces what type of sound? I like a nice open and wide sound with tighter bass. Would the fostex recommended back loaded enclosure give this?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
I have 2 fostex fe206e drivers on the way. Im a complete speaker building newbie but am attracted by the simplicity of a single driver speaker.
Could anyone advise of recommended easy to construct enclosures for the fe206e and where I can obtain plans? What type of enclosure produces what type of sound? I like a nice open and wide sound with tighter bass. Would the fostex recommended back loaded enclosure give this?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
I reckon that the guy who made the whiskey knew how much water to put in it...
How about...
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/rec_enc_1.shtml
How about...
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/rec_enc_1.shtml
Martin King's Project 05 would be a great place to start:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project05/Project05.html
The compensation circuit, or at the very least 3 ohms series resistance, is necessary for this enclosure.
I'm not quite certain the Fostex design would be easier to build than Ron's design; getting all those boards laminated with each other can be a pain if you don't have lots of clamps.
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project05/Project05.html
The compensation circuit, or at the very least 3 ohms series resistance, is necessary for this enclosure.
I'm not quite certain the Fostex design would be easier to build than Ron's design; getting all those boards laminated with each other can be a pain if you don't have lots of clamps.
Well, look at the simulation results for both drivers. The results for FE206E include 3 ohms series resistance. If you were going to place the enclosures near the back wall, that's all you would need.wixy said:
The enclosure is a mass-loaded transmission line. It's sort of a hybrid between a classical transmission line ("pipe") and bass-reflex.
The point is, you could make quick-n-dirty versions of these in an afternoon, before you tackled your backhorn project, and you could break in the drivers, etc.
wixy said:
The problem with using the 206 in a resonant cabinet is that the Qts is too low and you have to do something with the rising response. The former is handled with a wad of series resistance while the later requires some sort of filter to prevent ear bleed. It will work in Martin's cab or my cab, but why force it when the 207 works much better? Even the 207 is happier with a bit of series resistance, but it doesn't have the rising response, and only requires a BSC.
Use the 207 for resonant cabinets.
wixy said:
No, Martins 206/207 project is a MLTL, a quarter-wave generator. You might read the theory section of Martin's site.
Bob
The Fostex horns are supposed to be pretty good, tough I don't personally find the 206 horn very attractive. They should still work in the FE206ES-R recomended enclosure though -I remember trying a few comparison simulations, and that one's prettier. Ditto the FE208ESigma. Martin's or Bob's MLTLs will work, as noted above, though you can also handle the rising response by listening off-axis. 30 degrees, give or take should do it, though of course that has its own issues.
Best
Scott
Best
Scott
I`ve tried the FE206e in in BR and BLH enclosures and agree this driver needs a horn to sound balanced. After finishing the cabinets with red oak veneer and ebony stain in the horn mouth, I`m very pleased with the way the Fostex recommended BLH looks in my living room. I`ll try to get some pictures posted.
Singular can be a strong alternative ...
Hi,
If you visit my page you are going to see a double horn for 206Es as well. But if you are after simplicity, then Singular is a better choice.
Considering the T/S parametes, the driver doesn't look like as if you are going to have enough low end response but with Singular, the response is well balanced. Some claim that there is a the rising character of the driver unit, which is disturbing, but I have only witnessed such a problem with low end equipment. Talking about low end equipment, mine is not better either. I have a Radford Sta 25 Series 3 amplifier driven by a Echo Digital Indigo I/O sound card on a Toshiba laptop. But the sound is lively, well balanced and detailed.
To prevent this rising character, there is a filter, developed by Bert, which does the trick perfectly. I have bought 1.2 mH coils from Madisound and collected the rest of the components from the local store and tried it with a Sony CD player, bought for only 20 USD and a solid state amplifier (I couldn't read the maker since it was a Russian amp) With solid state amplifier, the midrange becomes brighter and forward. The combination I have used was 1.2 mH coil, 8 ohm resistor and 0.4 uF cap in paralel and all those were in series with the unit. The difference was obious as compared to the filterless option in a positive direction.
On my web page (www.yildiz.edu.tr/~ilkorur) you can also see a comparison of two enclosures, simulated in a software, which I have coded for my PhD thesis. As a result, Singulars stand as a better choice.
Besides, Singular and AER combination is very good. Therefore building Singular leaves the door open for further improvement of your system.
/Onur
Hi,
If you visit my page you are going to see a double horn for 206Es as well. But if you are after simplicity, then Singular is a better choice.
Considering the T/S parametes, the driver doesn't look like as if you are going to have enough low end response but with Singular, the response is well balanced. Some claim that there is a the rising character of the driver unit, which is disturbing, but I have only witnessed such a problem with low end equipment. Talking about low end equipment, mine is not better either. I have a Radford Sta 25 Series 3 amplifier driven by a Echo Digital Indigo I/O sound card on a Toshiba laptop. But the sound is lively, well balanced and detailed.
To prevent this rising character, there is a filter, developed by Bert, which does the trick perfectly. I have bought 1.2 mH coils from Madisound and collected the rest of the components from the local store and tried it with a Sony CD player, bought for only 20 USD and a solid state amplifier (I couldn't read the maker since it was a Russian amp) With solid state amplifier, the midrange becomes brighter and forward. The combination I have used was 1.2 mH coil, 8 ohm resistor and 0.4 uF cap in paralel and all those were in series with the unit. The difference was obious as compared to the filterless option in a positive direction.
On my web page (www.yildiz.edu.tr/~ilkorur) you can also see a comparison of two enclosures, simulated in a software, which I have coded for my PhD thesis. As a result, Singulars stand as a better choice.
Besides, Singular and AER combination is very good. Therefore building Singular leaves the door open for further improvement of your system.
/Onur
Thanks for the post Onur. I tried to examine your analysis of the 206e but could not use the software. Did you compare singular to a MLTL or a horn?
Comparing the two fostex drivers, 206 with passive EQ network or 207 in the Singular cab, is the final outcome materially different and, if so, how? At what LF does the speaker roll off?
I have been considering the Singular cab, in part due to the possible upgrade path to AER in the future. Is there a better driver than the fostex 206/07 but considerably less expensive than AER that would provide improvement over 206/07 in Singular?
How about the Supravox 215 RTF or Sig series? I did notice that you have a design for 215 RTF 64 on your site, but that cab at 1256mm height is too big for my space. The singular would be pushing the limit in size. Could it work in Singular, and would it improve upon Fostex? Thanks for any input you are able to provide. ~ Mike
Comparing the two fostex drivers, 206 with passive EQ network or 207 in the Singular cab, is the final outcome materially different and, if so, how? At what LF does the speaker roll off?
I have been considering the Singular cab, in part due to the possible upgrade path to AER in the future. Is there a better driver than the fostex 206/07 but considerably less expensive than AER that would provide improvement over 206/07 in Singular?
How about the Supravox 215 RTF or Sig series? I did notice that you have a design for 215 RTF 64 on your site, but that cab at 1256mm height is too big for my space. The singular would be pushing the limit in size. Could it work in Singular, and would it improve upon Fostex? Thanks for any input you are able to provide. ~ Mike
The software compares the enclosure, which is designed by Fostex, rear loaded horn design and Singular. The main idea is to show that the radiation pattern of Singular is more uniform and in the low frequency range, the enclosure is working more efficiently then the horn design.
As for comparing the two speakers, 206 vs 207, I would surely go for 206E with Berts' network. 206E is better in some other ways also, low end sound quality, midrange definition and for me, sensitivity and atackness. I have listened both in Singular and I liked 206E, with or without supression.
As for other speakers, I know the price difference between AER and 206E is huge and logically speaking, there should be another speaker which can fit in that range. All I can say is that, when speaking in terms of "value for money" the next step is AER, not another speaker. I have built Singular for my friends Supravox, although the low end tonality was good and the sound was balanced, you feel as if you need a super-tweeter to handle the top end. 206Es are complete drivers and cover the frequency range nicely. The next step looks like to be AERs, no speaker in between can reflect the price difference.
And as for the low end extension, the port reaches to 27 Hz (-3dB) Below is the response where the resonator is closed and the driver used is AER. With 206E the response (blue) is more linear.
As for comparing the two speakers, 206 vs 207, I would surely go for 206E with Berts' network. 206E is better in some other ways also, low end sound quality, midrange definition and for me, sensitivity and atackness. I have listened both in Singular and I liked 206E, with or without supression.
As for other speakers, I know the price difference between AER and 206E is huge and logically speaking, there should be another speaker which can fit in that range. All I can say is that, when speaking in terms of "value for money" the next step is AER, not another speaker. I have built Singular for my friends Supravox, although the low end tonality was good and the sound was balanced, you feel as if you need a super-tweeter to handle the top end. 206Es are complete drivers and cover the frequency range nicely. The next step looks like to be AERs, no speaker in between can reflect the price difference.
And as for the low end extension, the port reaches to 27 Hz (-3dB) Below is the response where the resonator is closed and the driver used is AER. With 206E the response (blue) is more linear.
Attachments
I also have my sights set on a pair of FE206E's - and a good Horn enclosure for them.
Onur, that double-horn of yours looks mighty fine to me - I am currently trying to decide on a horn. (Maybe that one )
I lean towards the Jericho, the J-Low (without the Jordan drivers, which I can't afford, plus the lower efficiency concerns me), and one or two others, yet no way to know, except to build 'em.
I am currently debating whether to take the plunge, buy a pair of 206E's now - or maybe wait, maybe
- until some later time.
You managed to get the bass response down below 50 Hz with the double horn, if I understand rightly ?
Onur, that double-horn of yours looks mighty fine to me - I am currently trying to decide on a horn. (Maybe that one )
I lean towards the Jericho, the J-Low (without the Jordan drivers, which I can't afford, plus the lower efficiency concerns me), and one or two others, yet no way to know, except to build 'em.
I am currently debating whether to take the plunge, buy a pair of 206E's now - or maybe wait, maybe
- until some later time.You managed to get the bass response down below 50 Hz with the double horn, if I understand rightly ?
Yes, depending on the feedback, I have received from the listeners, I can say that the low end surely reaches to 40 - 45 Hz with a nice tonality. Unlike Marco, Tim has reported that the low end is more then enough for some cases, but I suspect that it is a placement issue. The enclosure must not be very close to the corners and at the same time it shouldn't be too far. It can only be adjusted by ear for that specific listening room.
It is a shame that I haven't built the enclosure myself, but I will surely build it next month.
/Onur
It is a shame that I haven't built the enclosure myself, but I will surely build it next month.
/Onur
Singular and modified FE206
Onur,
I am seriously considering the singular cab with the fostex 206. The horn cab is too big for my room. However, Decware modifies the fostex fe206e in a number of ways, and repackages it as the DFR-8. Decware has published a paper describing these mods, along with frequency plots in the link below. From the specs and charts, do you think this modded fostex might be an improvement over fe206e in the Singular?
Description of mods and charts:
http://www.decware.com/paper79.htm
Specs:
# Decware phase guide installed
# Modified ES banana pulp cone
# 110mm magnet
# 38 Hz to 20 kHz
# 208mm Flange - 8 inch
# Cut-out 182mm
# Depth 87.5mm
# Sensitivity 1W/1M 96 dB
# Nom. Power 90 Watts
# QTS 0.23
# QMS 3.03
# QES 0.23
# RE 6.69 ohms 8 ohm nominal
# VAS 54 ltrs / 2.01 cubic feet
# Net weight 3400 grams / 7.58 lbs
Thanks, Mike
Onur,
I am seriously considering the singular cab with the fostex 206. The horn cab is too big for my room. However, Decware modifies the fostex fe206e in a number of ways, and repackages it as the DFR-8. Decware has published a paper describing these mods, along with frequency plots in the link below. From the specs and charts, do you think this modded fostex might be an improvement over fe206e in the Singular?
Description of mods and charts:
http://www.decware.com/paper79.htm
Specs:
# Decware phase guide installed
# Modified ES banana pulp cone
# 110mm magnet
# 38 Hz to 20 kHz
# 208mm Flange - 8 inch
# Cut-out 182mm
# Depth 87.5mm
# Sensitivity 1W/1M 96 dB
# Nom. Power 90 Watts
# QTS 0.23
# QMS 3.03
# QES 0.23
# RE 6.69 ohms 8 ohm nominal
# VAS 54 ltrs / 2.01 cubic feet
# Net weight 3400 grams / 7.58 lbs
Thanks, Mike
Yes, I have examined their speaker units with both of my software and found out that there is an improvement in the low end by means of extension and power handling. I can not say anything about the rest of the frequency band, since I haven't heard them, but the waterfall and phase responses look promising.
However, the price goes up form 90 USD to 300 USD. This is a serious difference and should be considered accordingly. 206Es are decent full-rangers and they sound nice. If you feel unconfortable with their performance Bert has developed a filtrer, which is very easy to build/apply, and can be regarded as a nice improvement on the sound. And, when you feel that there is room for improvement in your system, the next step can be AER MK1s, which altogether forms a cheaper route?
/Onur
However, the price goes up form 90 USD to 300 USD. This is a serious difference and should be considered accordingly. 206Es are decent full-rangers and they sound nice. If you feel unconfortable with their performance Bert has developed a filtrer, which is very easy to build/apply, and can be regarded as a nice improvement on the sound. And, when you feel that there is room for improvement in your system, the next step can be AER MK1s, which altogether forms a cheaper route?
/Onur
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