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Old 13th March 2006, 03:33 PM   #1
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Question "Best" extended midrange driver below $200 ?

I'm currently working on my next speaker project.

After a nice experience with Fostex FX-120, and an excellent experience with a friend's Supravox 165GMF+FT17H, I thought it was time for me to design some "affordable dream speakers"

I thought I'd pick up an excellent fullranger and join it to a woofer and a tweeter, with cutoffs like 200Hz/10kHz

The speakers will be active-filtered.

The most difficult thing for me is to choose the right fullrange driver.

I have in mind the F120A, the Jordan JXR6 and the Supravox 165GMF.

Looking at the waterfall CSD graphs, the 165GMF shows excellent damping in 0.2ms, while the Jordan needs 0.5ms. I don't eliminate it right now, though I doubt it can beat the Supravox.
The problem is that I have found no CSD data on the Fostex speakers, that's a shame .

Do you have any information about those rare Fostex drivers ?


Do you know any other driver that could suit my purpose ?

Thx in advance !
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Old 13th March 2006, 08:39 PM   #2
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Default Re: "Best" extended midrange driver below $200 ?

Quote:
Originally posted by youyoung21147
I'm currently working on my next speaker project.

After a nice experience with Fostex FX-120, and an excellent experience with a friend's Supravox 165GMF+FT17H, I thought it was time for me to design some "affordable dream speakers"

I thought I'd pick up an excellent fullranger and join it to a woofer and a tweeter, with cutoffs like 200Hz/10kHz

The speakers will be active-filtered.

The most difficult thing for me is to choose the right fullrange driver.

I have in mind the F120A, the Jordan JXR6 and the Supravox 165GMF.

Looking at the waterfall CSD graphs, the 165GMF shows excellent damping in 0.2ms, while the Jordan needs 0.5ms. I don't eliminate it right now, though I doubt it can beat the Supravox.
The problem is that I have found no CSD data on the Fostex speakers, that's a shame .

Do you have any information about those rare Fostex drivers ?


Do you know any other driver that could suit my purpose ?

Thx in advance !

The Jordan will have a superior off-axis performance because of its small diameter.. CSD below 1 kHz however will be worse.

For high eff. and a clean CSD look at the Veravox 5s. Off-axis performance won't be as good as the Jordan. It should come close to the bandwidth you are looking for and work particularly well in an active setup. I'd pair it with the Supravox 215 GMF and an Aurum Cantus G2si for a superb active system. (..note though that the 215 will need a LOT of volume to get the best from it.) The 5s might be best utilized in free-air (dipole), like the Alon/Nola speakers (..or Dahlquist if your memory goes back that far).
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Old 14th March 2006, 04:44 PM   #3
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Thanks for the Veravox suggestion !

Do you have any CSD and frequency response graph concerning this driver ?

I've also seen the Fostex FE-108 Sigma (new version) wich is said to have an excellent midrange. Is it also a good candidate compared to F120A or Veravox ?

The ribbon tweeter was my favorite option, but it would rather be the Fountek Neo CD2.0 or G3Si wich have a better CSD and less distorsion.

I've not precisely looked at the bass driver yet, I've seen an Alcone AC8HE which has a nice CSD graph.
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Old 14th March 2006, 09:54 PM   #4
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by youyoung21147
Thanks for the Veravox suggestion !

Do you have any CSD and frequency response graph concerning this driver ?

I've also seen the Fostex FE-108 Sigma (new version) wich is said to have an excellent midrange. Is it also a good candidate compared to F120A or Veravox ?

The ribbon tweeter was my favorite option, but it would rather be the Fountek Neo CD2.0 or G3Si wich have a better CSD and less distorsion.

I've not precisely looked at the bass driver yet, I've seen an Alcone AC8HE which has a nice CSD graph.
Hobby HiFi in issue 1/2003 displayed a CSD graph of this driver. Its about 95 db in eff.. and is clean to a little over a quarter of a millisecond from 500 to 7.5 kHz down to 30 db (..and the top end break-up is reasonably clean though not flat in amplitude.. i.e. some "peaking" in response on-axis). The response below 500 Hz is slightly attenuated and a little slower in the initial rise-time, but is still less than a half millisecond down to 30 db's. Better than most of Supravox's drivers. On-axis the amplitude is not flat, but rises about 3db from 400 Hz to 2.5 kHz (..shouldn't be a problem though with an active setup that can be more flexible with freq. eq'ing.)

Note however that unlike Supravox's own measurement facility, Hobby HiFi does use absorptive dampening (back-fill) for their measurements. This is partially why Supravox's own measurements don't look as "clean" as they otherwise could (..ie Supravox uses a more "purist" approach to measuring - and has a very good anechoic chamber to about 70 Hz.)

The Fostex is not in the same class.. and if anything the best comparison would be to the fe126e (which is something like a cheap 5s - an astounding value though).

Both the Fountek and the Aurum Cantus you have listed have VERY limited vertical dispersion - which you may not like (..most don't).

The G2Si is more than clean enough from 6 kHz up. Nor is the distortion level enough to be audible UNLESS you use a low crossover point and a shallow slope - which would be pointless for an active based system. IF you like the true ribbon sound do NOT use the Fountek Neo series.. the mechanical damping of the ribbon does not sound the same as the pleated variety (..and NO it is not an increase in THD that causes this audible discrepency.) Trust me on this - the G2Si, or the G2s or Raven R1 (if you really need to spend more money) is the way to go unless you want limited vertical dispersion.

I noticed you didn't mention the 215 GMF. Though there is a resonance at around 640 Hz, below 500 Hz effectivly - this is perhaps the best midbass driver I've ever seen (outside of their 285 EXC 12v). Its very clean even with the purist measurment method.
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Old 14th March 2006, 10:56 PM   #5
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Doesnt anyone like or know Fostex FX120
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Old 15th March 2006, 01:20 PM   #6
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This Veravox seems interesting !

Quote:
Hobby HiFi does use absorptive dampening (back-fill) for their measurements.
Where is the damping placed ? Is it on the open baffle or behind the driver or in front of it ?

Quote:
Hobby HiFi in issue 1/2003 displayed a CSD graph of this driver. Its about 95 db in eff.. and is clean to a little over a quarter of a millisecond from 500 to 7.5 kHz down to 30 db
Would you be kind enough to scan and post the graphs so everybody could see them ?


Quote:
The Fostex is not in the same class..
What do you mean there ? Is the F120A way better than the Veravox ?
In Europe, Veravox 5S is sold 149 and F120A is sold 180 so the difference is not so big.

Quote:
Both the Fountek and the Aurum Cantus you have listed have VERY limited vertical dispersion - which you may not like (..most don't).
I don't understand why ribbons sound so good according to golden ears because compared to domes, they don't perform as well (looking at the measurements on www.zaphaudio.com ).
What about a horn tweeter like the FT96H ? I've had a nice experience with the FT17H. Could anyone tell me if the FT96H is worth its price compared to FT17H ?


Quote:
I noticed you didn't mention the 215 GMF.
The 215GMF looks very nice despite some resonnances. It could be my choice in a 2-way setup but I will be using a bass driver (8" to 12") below 200Hz so maybe such a big driver is not needed. Moreover I don't have so much place in my room so it could be a waste.

Quote:
Doesnt anyone like or know Fostex FX120
Yes I own a pair of FX120 that are used as true fullrangers in my current system. (TQWT mounted)
It is a good, very neutral and quite detailed driver. You never get tired listening to them.
But IMHO, this driver is limited in bass extension, in SPL (even if you don't listen loud) and therefore cannot express its full potential in a fullrange system. I find them slow and dynamicsless compared to my friend's Supravox 165GMF which really have punch.
Also, my young ears really feel like they have too little treble above 12kHz, which is not so good.

I tried to do a CSD with LSPlab but it was taken in my room, on the TQWT, at a distance of 8cm. I don't think it is a representative measurement.
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Old 15th March 2006, 03:31 PM   #7
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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Spectrumaudio have a 13cm Altec-Lansing that is really cheap and has good sensitivity.
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Old 15th March 2006, 04:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Spectrumaudio have a 13cm Altec-Lansing that is really cheap and has good sensitivity.

I've seen it a few days ago. It has a quite linear frequency response but I doubt that it can outperform a Fostex or Supravox. But maybe I'm wrong !!
It could be interesting in more conventional system IMHO
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Old 15th March 2006, 04:35 PM   #9
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Thought I'd pass this along. I emailed with someone a while back that had the F120A and the FE108E Sigma. While he liked them both, he thought the 108 was actually a bit nicer. Quicker and cleaner, as I recall, with more detail. Don't recall cabs, etc, just the conversation.

Hope that helps...
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Old 15th March 2006, 04:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by one1speed
Thought I'd pass this along. I emailed with someone a while back that had the F120A and the FE108E Sigma. While he liked them both, he thought the 108 was actually a bit nicer. Quicker and cleaner, as I recall, with more detail. Don't recall cabs, etc, just the conversation.

Hope that helps...

Interesting !

I assume that the F120A and FX120 are very similar : same cone, same size, same dome etc...
What he says about the F120A is a bit what I feel about the FX120 : a bit round and slow, though it sounds nice and not tiring.

Maybe the FE108Z will be my "cheap" (though already expensive ) choice if I can't afford something like Veravox or Supravox.

It's hard finding THE driver you want when you don't have measurements to compare
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