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Old 16th March 2006, 03:08 PM   #21
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Colin

To try to help further, if using the JXR6, where would you roll it in? I know it has a certain Fs, but what's a good point for it to take over from a bass driver?

I've heard this is supposed to be a pretty special driver.
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Old 16th March 2006, 04:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
The dampening is fiber fill behind the driver (though they might do it with some dampening on the front baffle as well
OK, so it is representative of the performance of the driver in the enclosure


Quote:
All I can tell you about the FT96H is that looks incredibly well built, has MUCH better off-axis high freq. response which should give more "air", and likely has its mechanical resonance in the bandwidth you desire and have a poor CSD..
Poor CSD=not so good driver for excellent details I think I'll stick with the ribbons.

Quote:
With the 8 inch 215 you could go more "vertical" with the design to increase your volume for a given area of floor space.. Additionally, considering room-gain you could achieve a fair bit of extension with a non-aligned bass reflex design. (..say perhaps a tuning freq. around 26 Hz.)

My problem is not exactly floor space but "desk" space as my listening place is in front of two desks which cover the whole length of the wall. I precisely don't want a tall enclosure (ugly solution, but I have no choice...)
Concerning bass, I have an active sub that goes from 63Hz down to 20Hz so no bass problem. The bass driver will help from 280Hz to 40Hz or so.

Quote:
Oh, BTW.. the measurement looks about right - and if I'm not mistaken there was fiber fill behind the driver when it was measured. Correct?
The measurements were taken in the enclosure, but there is almost no damping behind the driver itself (only in corners). The thing that looks wrong is the big resonnance between 1 and 2 kHz, I hope it comes from the baffle resonnances and the enclosure



Quote:
At the criteria mentioned at the beginning of the thread, I'm surprised that you are not considering the Fostex FE168EZ
According to people's opinion, it seems to be an excellent driver. But according to Fostex's graphs, it seems that it has a very uneven response with +6dB from 1.5 to 3 kHz and + 10dB at 14 kHz and 7 kHz. Though 3dB are easy to equalize, such peaks are hard to remove and I think this driver wouldn't be suitable in a balanced system.
But maybe I'm wrong !


Quote:
There is a report on a direct comparison between FX120 and Veravox 5 running on audiodiskussion.de. The tester says they are totally different. The Veravox is a lot more direct. I have some experience with the FE126E and I would also say it is a softie compared to Ciare drivers.
I went on the website and read with my poor German what the guy says. The Veravox seems to have more "punch" and to be more analytic than the FX120, precisely what I really enjoyed with the Supravox 165GMF ! I like alive, clear and "energic" sound

Compared to the FX120, the 165GMF is far more analytic, far faster and has far more dynamics than the FX120.


Quote:
Just thought I'd add a little more to this, as I have a quick minute. I currently have the FE166ES-R and FE168E Sigma running open baffle. The 166 is breaking in nicely, but I do note a little distortion when compared to the 168 due to the whizzer. The 168 being a bit more layed back and not reaching as high. However, the build quality of the 168 is fantastic. I have some phase plugs coming for the 166s to hopefully help a bit.
I did order a pair of the Veravox 5x drivers, sort of a special edition of the 5s. I've been dying to try them and decided to take the plunge. As long as my girlfriend doesn't find out...
Anyway, I'll post thoughts once I receive them, which will most likely be next week sometime. I spoke with Mr. Solen and he was helpful. He said he met the make of them and they are a very well crafted speaker.

I'd be very interested to hear your comparisons between the Veravox and the Fostex drivers ! I hope your girlfriend won't notice this stuff !

Quote:
Back to the original question - the Jordan JXR6 would have the advantage of not needing any additional ribbon tweeter as it runs to well over 20kHz. It sounds cleaner and more extended than the JX92.
The "no tweeter" advantage of the JXR6 makes it a theorically good candidate. That's why I found it so interesting at first.
But I'm afraid it can't handle the dynamics of a bigger driver, have so much punch etc... Moreover, the CSD graphs published on the Web show it needs 0,4ms to damp anything from 1kHz to 20kHz, which is far from being fantastic.
Is it really an awesome driver compared to more "conventional" drivers with paper cone ?


Anyway, Thanks everyone for your very helpful posts !
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Old 16th March 2006, 05:56 PM   #23
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Don't get too stuck on the graphs. They say we feed off of the peaks. If you check over at Decware.com under is Lowther Gadget, there is a white paper posted regarding the Lowther DX55 and the Decware Gadget. Anyway, the graphs look horrible. But Steve's response is that every driver he's ever measured is all over the place. It just needs to be like that in the right way.

Go to Decware.com / Articles / scroll down to Lowther DX55

All I'm saying is trust your ears a bit here. Chances are a ruler flat driver is going to sound that way.
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Old 16th March 2006, 06:19 PM   #24
joensd is offline joensd  Germany
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I posted a scan of the Veravox 5Ss frequency response here:
ultimate fullrange but unfortunately the links dont seem to work anymore. If you have a week time Ill put them up again.
Ive listened to this one and it was damn marvellous with acoustic music at least.
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Old 16th March 2006, 06:36 PM   #25
joensd is offline joensd  Germany
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Found the graph elsewhere;-)
some fullrangers measured from Hobby Hifi
Below the Veravox 5S it says something like:
an excellent fullranger even whilst the treble seems a bit "messy",
above all its one of the best 13cm midranges.
(from ftp directory )

greets
Jens
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Old 16th March 2006, 06:49 PM   #26
Colin is offline Colin  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by one1speed
Colin

To try to help further, if using the JXR6, where would you roll it in? I know it has a certain Fs, but what's a good point for it to take over from a bass driver?

I've heard this is supposed to be a pretty special driver.
I'm running mine 'full range', with just the enclosure rolloff as LF filter, so it's running to around 120Hz. It would probably sound better - and handle more power - if crossed over around 200Hz. The earlier JX53 was designed for 500Hz with a first octave x/over, so the JXR6 in similar circumstances should be able to handle 250Hz. Lower if using a higher order x/over.

I agree with the comment that measurement graphs aren't the entire story (I doubt any two manufacturers measure their drivers in exactly the same way). Where it excels is in the fine, low-level detail, stop-start transients and imaging - the latter presumably from having no x/over or separate HF driver.
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Old 16th March 2006, 07:22 PM   #27
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by joensd
Ive listened to this one and it was damn marvellous with acoustic music at least.
I think that pretty much sum's it up. With something more musically electronic you'll have a midbass driver for the punch so you won't be limited by the 5s for that type of music.
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Old 16th March 2006, 08:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by youyoung21147
Poor CSD=not so good driver for excellent details I think I'll stick with the ribbons.
youyoung

Can I ask what you mean here? What do you mean by CSD? I ask, as I'm looking into ribbons vs. horn super tweeters.

With the ribbons, because you need all the extra circuitry for protection, I'd guess they would work out about the same in the end, no?

I'd like to hear your explaination of this, if you don't mind.

Thanks!
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Old 16th March 2006, 08:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by youyoung21147

Poor CSD=not so good driver for excellent details I think I'll stick with the ribbons.
youyoung

Would you mind explaining this to me? What do you mean by "CSD?" I'm looking at ribbons or horn supertweeters myself.

Thanks much!
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Old 16th March 2006, 11:39 PM   #30
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by one1speed


youyoung

Would you mind explaining this to me? What do you mean by "CSD?" I'm looking at ribbons or horn supertweeters myself.

Thanks much!
This is just a graphical display (Cumulative Spectral Decay) of an impulse response measurement - almost exclusivly to show the time it takes for the driver to mechanically settle (stop) for a given freq. and spl (sound pressure level).. The graph he posted of the fostex driver is a CSD.

Horn tweeters are usually compression driver tweeters and typically have poor decay qualities.. however they are often rated at their average spl 1 watt at 1 meter. Given that most compression drivers are more efficent than all other drivers, the comparison is not exactly "apples to apples" because while the cleaner "normal" driver will be working at 1 watt at 1 meter, the compression driver at that same spl may be working at less than a 10th of a watt at one meter which MAY (depending on the driver) provide a cleaner decay at that spl.. Here is a comparison between a pro planar tweeter and a typical compression driver in the same bandwidth:

http://www.stageaccompany.com/en/products/ribboncd.php
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